Episode 6.8: Join the Leading Together Program for LOTS of Reasons

Orange. Month. Woman. Purple. We start with No Rhyme Nor Reason Day and tumble into a surprisingly useful question: why do some things resist neat rules, whether it’s language, poetry, or the way change happens in schools? (See what we did there?) It’s light, a little nerdy, and a reminder that sometimes doing something just for the joy of it is reason enough.

Then we shift to the work that really matters for educators: instructional coaching that actually moves classroom practice and student learning. John Hayes and Tracy Talmage join us to share Leading Together: A Coaching And Leadership Collaborative, built as a connected, year-long professional learning pathway. 

Check the link below for dates and registration, share this with a coach or leader who needs stronger support, and please subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what word you still cannot rhyme.

Leading Together Collaborative Landing Page

Some Coaching Research you might be interested in

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

September 1 And A Strange Holiday

Joel 0:17

Listening to the More Math for More People podcast, an outreach of CPM Educational Program. Boom

Misty 0:31

I can't believe it's the 1st of September already

Joel 0:34

Do you remember? No, that's a different day, right? That's right, 21st. This is the 1st. I think it is. Yeah

Misty 0:43

I don't know. Anyway, I think I say that a lot, that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's already..." 'Cause that's what old people say apparently dates, so

Joel 0:54

and they also read signs a lot, street signs aloud, old people.

Misty 0:59

Oh, read them out loud? Hmm. I think I read them all, but I don't know that I read them out

Joel 1:03

I do. I read them out loud.

Misty 1:05

Well, you must be-- You have more signs of aging than I do, apparently. I don't know. Okay. Well, it is September 1st, so what is the, uh, day we're celebrating today, Joel?

Joel 1:16

National No Rhyme Nor Reason Day

Misty 1:19

No Rhyme Nor Reason Day.

Joel 1:22

right

Misty 1:23

Interesting. I was just really like, okay. I mean, I'm, I'm like, first of all, where does the saying no rhyme or reason come

Joel 1:32

yeah, I don't even know what to talk about.

Misty 1:35

what... I mean, I know what it means kind of. Like, it's one of those, as my brain goes into that I, I know often know language metaphors and idioms by like, oh yeah, that thing means this. But then every once in a while I'm like, "Well, why does those words mean that?" So no rhyme nor reason, not no rhyme or reason, interestingly, 'cause there's neither rhyme nor reason

Joel 1:58

Right. So we're celebrating unique words that defy rhyming,

Misty 2:04

Oh

Joel 2:05

and we're encouraging to engage in actions purely for the joy of it

Misty 2:12

Oh, it's an interesting combination of things. So we're celebrating words that defy rhyming. Well, we could take that up with Eminem 'cause he says he can rhyme anything

Joel 2:24

Well, g- I've actually seen him rhyme what I'm about to say, but guess what I'm, guess what I'm looking at a picture of right now?

Misty 2:31

I bet it's an

Joel 2:32

It is orange slices.

Trying To Rhyme The Unrhymable

Misty 2:35

Nice. Nice. Like real orange slices or the candied orange

Joel 2:39

They look like real orange slices. They look delicious, actually. It's a good

Misty 2:42

Wow. All right.

Joel 2:44

Yeah

Misty 2:45

Yeah, so I mean, there are many-- Like, it depends on what your definition of the word rhyming is, right?

Joel 2:50

Mm-hmm

Misty 2:52

I went and did a lot of this when writing lyrics. It's like you can, you can make words that are like sound close enough that they rhyme-ish

Joel 2:59

Yeah, with like a, I don't wanna say accent, but you can...

Misty 3:03

different emphasis on syllables.

Joel 3:05

emphasis

Misty 3:06

Mm-hmm. Exactly. All right. So what do you-- So this is the Eminem rhyming orange or something?

Joel 3:13

Yeah.

Misty 3:14

You gonna be able to pull it off?

Joel 3:15

No, I can't do it. I just, I just said I've, I've heard him do it. I heard him do it. I don't, I don't even know

Misty 3:22

a recording of it maybe and put it in the podcast. Okay.

Joel 3:26

through the whole process of rhyming orange

Misty 3:30

Yeah. But any- any- I think it, like, he makes a good point, right? I- I've only heard about this, that, you know, like, depending on how and where you put it in a sentence, right, you can... And what kind of emphasis or s- strict pronunciation you're giving, right, you can, uh, you can kinda rhyme things differently

Joel 3:50

I know, but today we're celebrating not rhyming. So

Misty 3:53

Okay. Well, I mean, th-that's even harder 'cause apparently you can. So, you know, we're gonna have to say things like orange, and then that doesn't rhyme with anything.

Joel 4:03

Oh my gosh.

Misty 4:04

but

Joel 4:04

W--

Misty 4:05

there's-- I, I remember people telling me, like, orange is the only word that you couldn't rhyme with anything, and that's not really true. There's many words that don't really have good rhyming, other words. I don't know how to say that.

Joel 4:14

Can you think of any?

Misty 4:15

Woman

Joel 4:18

Woman. I can't think of something that rhymes with that right now

Misty 4:21

Yeah. Well, I mean, I put you really on the spot.

Joel 4:23

Yeah.

Misty 4:24

We'd have a long, like, "dee, doo, doo, doo," while you were thinking, you know? Yeah. No, there's, I mean, there's many other words that are harder to rhyme, like orange. So, so not rhyming words and then not being reasonable or something. What was the other part of it? Just being, uh, doing fun? Being

Joel 4:43

yeah, like,

Misty 4:44

am I trying to say?

Joel 4:45

it's, uh, engaging in actions purely for the joy of it

Misty 4:50

I see. I see. Hmm.

Joel 4:52

inspire others in that way. This timeline though that I'm looking at is not so much about the rhyming, it's about the phrases that you were talking about.

Where Odd Phrases Come From

Misty 5:03

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joel 5:06

Way back when

Misty 5:07

Mm-hmm

Joel 5:09

the expression, "Till the cow comes home," is formed

Misty 5:13

Uh-huh. Well, which I take to mean is late in the day

Joel 5:18

Milk, it's about the Milky Way.

Misty 5:20

It's about the Milky Way?

Joel 5:21

Yeah.

Misty 5:22

What?

Joel 5:23

Yeah.

Misty 5:24

That doesn't make any sense. I thought you were gonna say it's about milking the cows, 'cause when the cows come home, they wanna be milked.

Joel 5:30

this says Milky Way

Misty 5:31

maybe I'm taking it too literally

Joel 5:34

When what's something like when you're, when you're trying to get your big break, what do you do?

Misty 5:39

When you're trying to get your big break. Uh, don't know. Oh,

Joel 5:44

You break a leg

Misty 5:46

oh, oh. Right. Well, that's,

Joel 5:49

It's

Misty 5:49

that's what people say to people when they're gonna go on stage, because supposedly saying good luck is bad, so you tell them to break a leg

Joel 5:58

Doesn't seem like there's a- any rhyme nor reason to

Misty 6:01

No, yeah, that doesn't make any sense

Joel 6:03

So, let's see. How about close but no cigar?

Misty 6:07

Oh, close but no cigar.

Joel 6:10

Do you know where that comes from?

Misty 6:11

No

Joel 6:13

Carnival games, when the prize was a, a cigar for your prize.

Misty 6:17

see that makes

Joel 6:18

Yeah

Misty 6:20

Close, but you didn't win a cigar. Now they'd say like, "Close, but no stuffed animal," which doesn't as nearly a nicer ring to it.

Joel 6:28

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What about purple? Can you rank purple? Mm-hmm.

Misty 6:35

Purple?

Joel 6:36

Is that a word?

Misty 6:37

Slurple. I just said it.

Joel 6:38

Uh, it must be a word, but

Misty 6:43

I mean, the pull part you could probably rhyme.

Joel 6:45

What about mouth or month? Month.

Misty 6:48

Months?

Joel 6:49

Uh-huh

Misty 6:51

I don't, I don't know.

Joel 6:52

I don't know either.

Misty 6:55

Mon- once. Once upon a time. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not good at, like, rhyming, like, right off the top of my head

Joel 7:04

Yeah, me either. But one of the activities that you could do is

No Rhyme Poems And A Listener Challenge

Joel 7:08

write a no rhyme poem.

Misty 7:10

Oh.

Joel 7:11

That would be hard, I think

Misty 7:13

I don't think it's that hard. I think it's harder to write good rhyming poems.

Joel 7:18

I have a rhyming dictionary

Misty 7:19

I have a rhyming dictionary also,

Joel 7:21

Hmm.

Misty 7:22

'cause I write lyrics and occasionally I need it to brainstorm with. But it has, like, two kinds of rhymes, right? It has, like, really strict rhymes, and then it has, like, proximal rhymes, but I think that writing a poem that rhymes and isn't silly

Joel 7:38

Mm-hmm.

Misty 7:39

is hard

Joel 7:40

Mm-hmm.

Misty 7:42

Like to write a poem that sounds good and like... But you could write a haiku, it wouldn't rhyme. We've done haikus here.

Joel 7:50

We have,

Misty 7:50

You've done your poet, like your little poem words,

Joel 7:53

cubes, my high cubes

Misty 7:56

Right. Or your, yeah. That's not rhyming Anyway. All right, well, what are you gonna do today for No Rhyme nor Reason Day?

Joel 8:03

I think that I'm just gonna go have fun and do fun things for no reason at all

Misty 8:10

For no reason, just because they're fun. That's the

Joel 8:13

That's a, that would be a reason. I'm just gonna do

Misty 8:15

I think that's what it said, right? Do it just because it's fun. No other reason. Doesn't have to be reasonable.

Joel 8:22

Right.

Misty 8:23

Yeah.

Joel 8:24

Hmm

Misty 8:25

I think, I think that's a good idea. I think that everyone should just do something 'cause it's like, makes them feel good,

Joel 8:31

Yeah. I like it

Misty 8:34

All right. And they can try to rhyme words

Joel 8:38

Yeah

Misty 8:39

I would love for someone to send in their, like, rhyming rap with, what were the words? Months, purple,

Joel 8:47

And orange

Misty 8:48

orange, and woman.

Joel 8:51

Mm-hmm.

Misty 8:52

All right. That's your challenge

Joel 8:53

Okay. Accepted

Misty 8:56

All right All right.

Meet John Hayes And Tracy Talmage

Misty 9:14

we're here today with John Hayes, who... John, you might be our most frequent visitor on the podcast. I don't

John 9:21

Yay, John.

Joel 9:24

Well, and we're celebrating nor rhyme nor reason, so... But the-- who knows why that is?

John 9:31

Oh, I see

Misty 9:33

Perhaps, perhaps. And with Tracy Talmage. Tracy, have you been on the podcast yet?

Tracy 9:39

I have never been on the podcast live before, no. I'm very excited

Misty 9:44

you've been on the podcast not live?

Tracy 9:47

Yes, I gave a beginning tip, I think

Misty 9:50

Okay. Awesome. You probably did. I don't... I apologize for not remembering every single detail of everything that's happened on the podcast, but it has been many, many podcasts now. So we have John and Tracy here today, uh, to talk with us about a... I'm just gonna say it's like a really extra special thing. I don't know what I d- I don't... I, I wanted a different word there, and I couldn't think of one fast enough. A really extra special... I don't... It's not an event.

John 10:16

Maybe it's a program.

Misty 10:17

Can we call it a program? Okay, a really extra special program that our listeners and other people could be part of, that's happening this year, and it's called Leading Together, and then there's some other words after that, right?

John 10:31

Yeah. Leading Together, a coaching and leadership collaborative

Misty 10:36

Excellent. Thank you. It's c- oh, it's like a collaborative program even. I like that part. So, th- we're, and we, and you've just started launching this, right? Like, we've just started doing the things. It's a bunch of different stuff. Can you encapsulate, like tell us what it is

John 10:52

Absolutely. So first I'd like to say the research is very clear that coaching is extremely effective in changing teacher practice and in changing student growth also. Um, there are some caveats to that, so there's a rhyme and reason, I guess. So first, uh, your, your coaches have to be somewhat skilled for that to happen. Your coaches have to have time to make that happen. Um, they need a learning community, so they need others to support their own growth. And then they need to be supported within their district by their leaders and through the systems that are within that district to provide coaching. So

Why Coaching Changes Teacher Practice

John 11:36

I think Tracy's gonna talk about the triangle. Do you wanna start there, Tracy? Is that o- is that okay?

Tracy 11:43

Before we go too deep into that, I think we should give an overview of the program,

John 11:47

Oh yeah

Tracy 11:48

Yeah. So I'll talk about the first piece. So we actually kicked off at the beginning of August with our instructional coaching toolkit book study. And it happens virtually but live every Thursday at 5:30

Misty 12:08

Mm-hmm.

Tracy 12:09

Eastern Standard Time. So there is still time... Well, it will be ended by the time this pod- podcast comes out, but that is how it launched.

Misty 12:18

Well

Tracy 12:20

And then we are going to roll that into a series of leadership labs. John, you wanna talk about the leadership labs?

John 12:28

Yeah, absolutely. The so there's one a month, um, starting in September, and the first one is turning evidence into meaningful coaching conversations. So that very first one is when we visit a classroom, what do we do with the evidence that we collected afterwards and starting a conversation? The second one in October is aligning coaches, leaders, and teachers for greater impact. So that's, that feeds back on that idea I said of, you know, coaches can be really effective if they're supported by their leadership and the systems within their district. And then the November, um, lab is about navigating difficult conversations, which always seems to be something that coaches have to wrestle with when they're with teachers, is sometimes the conversations are not all about professional growth. Sometimes they get a little sticky. And so coaches need support navigating those conversations. And then the f- the final one before the teacher conference is leading and coaching students at the center. So again, focusing our practice on you know, one of the big messages there might be who are we collecting

Leadership Labs And Evidence Conversations

John 13:46

evidence about? Is, is it about the teacher or is it about the students? And we're gonna encourage the evidence to be collected about the students. And then we have the teacher conference. Do you want me to continue, Tracy, with the teacher conference?

Tracy 14:02

Well, I wanted to point out that all of those leadership labs that John just talked about are happening live and virtually, and they're a complimentary part of this program. So you know, everyone's welcome to join pretty much, you know, who's interested in coaching leadership. And, uh, it'll be, uh, again on Thursdays at 5:30 Eastern Time, and then it's once a month. So you'll wanna look up the specific dates if you're interested in joining. Now you can continue with the teacher conference.

John 14:35

Oh. So all the

Misty 14:36

say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna interject in there too that like we are gonna put a link to a document that will give you all of the specific dates, all the specific pieces of information as well, as well as how to like, how to get, how to join, right? For sure

John 14:53

Cool. Do you need more links? 'Cause I have more research stuff you could put in there

Misty 14:58

Oh, sure. We can put all kinds of links. We'll put several links into the podcast description that

John 15:03

How exciting. So it, it re-- this, this program's really not like a single workshop. It's a fully connected coaching and leadership, you know, program. And our idea was that we would kind of put a capstone on those labs and on the learning during the teacher conference. Um, so with the support of the sep- site-based leadership team we have a conference within a conference, and that conference is for coaches and leaders, and we have five sessions that coaches and leaders could go to. The first one is by Dr. Carpenter, and he's going to be our keynote for the conference within a conference. And his is called, oh, uh, Aligning Your Coaching Spine. So that'll be exciting. And then Tracy and I will do a session that we're going to be doing at Learning Forward in December also, which is Everybody Needs a Coach. And in that session, we'll be highlighting a district that we worked with where we actually coached their coaches, and we coached their leaders. And then the third one is Embracing Imperfection: A Gradual Approach to Supporting Instructional Growth. The fourth one is called Cover Your Assets: Identifying Fostering Teacher Strengths for Meaningful Student Growth.

Teacher Conference Capstone In San Francisco

John 16:34

And the last one is Leveraging PLC Time for Impact. So those are the five sessions. That's kind of the capstone of, um, what we had done up to that point.

Misty 16:44

And those are all gonna be at the teacher conference in San Francisco, February 20th and 21st, 2027

John 16:55

Absolutely.

Misty 16:55

Yeah. So go ahead

John 16:57

in my vision, Tracy and I are gonna be in that room for the entire two days, so yep

Misty 17:07

Awesome. Awesome. So so the last part that you were talking about, that conference within conference is connected to the teacher conference. So for that part, when it's open, which will be not very long from now, people would be able to register for the teacher conference and add that as their selection to do the conference within a conference for the Leading Together. The other pieces that you're saying are complementary, and anyone can sign up for them. Yes, you're both nodding. No one can see that.

Joel 17:38

I, I also wanted to kind of back up a little bit too, 'cause I heard the three distinct pieces, and so I'm wondering how much, like, would somebody have to do everything to get something out of it? Or could they join for some, not for others, things like that

Tracy 17:57

That's a, that's a great question, Joel. Um, it's, we have deliberately created it to be, um, the second thing that you said, which is people can join us. They can pick and choose and join us for the things that make the most sense to them. And you know, we hope that you can attend as many as possible, but we recognize like the, you know, amazing time constraints that our leaders and, and educators are under right now. So we deliberately designed everything so that it, it can be standalone. Of course, if you're attending all of them, then we're hoping that you'll form some relationships. You'll get to hear from people all over the country. You'll get to, you know, continue to build on and make connections between these sessions, which I think would be really beneficial. But again, yeah, it can just be a menu where you pick and choose. And we also h- I wanted to mention for the teacher conference on top of that, we only scheduled, uh, this conference within a conference

Choose Your Own Path Through The Program

Tracy 18:58

for the breakout sessions. So there will be keynote opportunities, um, networking opportunities, and I believe maybe a poster session as well, where you can attend those pieces with your staff so that you are getting time together and that you're not getting pulled only into, you know, the leadership piece 'cause we wanna make sure that you get to be there with your teachers if that's part of your you know, goal or intention of attending the co- uh, the conference

Joel 19:24

I-- Just a ba- a backup on that again. I was able to attend one of the Launching Coaching cycle sessions, and it seemed like there are a wide variety of backgrounds. So I, I met somebody who's a principal, I met somebody who's a coach, I met s- you know. So it seems like it could, it really could be for anybody. Is that true?

John 19:49

I think, um, yeah, the, I mean, our focus is not only are we in the, in the back of our minds during all of these things, we're trying to build this triangle of communication between leaders, coaches, and teachers. And so any of those people can attend any of those s- any of those sessions and any of the, um, virtual sessions also. And, and the idea is you're developing your coaching skills. Yes, we do have, you know, in August, we did go through our instructional, um, coaching toolkit. Um, but you don't need the instructional toolkit for the rest of it. It is just about having

Misty 20:34

still be good to buy it. I'm just gonna say you could always, always purchase it.

Joel 20:38

Absolutely.

John 20:39

Absolutely. Um, um, but it, it is about building those coaching skills so when a leader walks into a classroom or another teacher walks into another teacher's classroom, um, they have those skills available to have a conversation about professional growth and student learning. So yeah

Misty 21:01

And, and I am just gonna, I'm gonna do the little bit, but wait, there's more, 'cause it did not mention that we also have the pre-conference at the teacher conference, which is not specifically part of this program necessarily, but is definitely very connected to it 'cause it's, we have a pre-conference about

Coaching Foundations And More Labs Ahead

Misty 21:18

the foundations for coaching. And, and that is another touchpoint where if you did not do the book study, for example, you would be able to look at and get some, some background with the instructional, uh, co- coaching toolkit. Is that right?

John 21:32

Yes, I believe you get a toolkit with the pre-conference. And so we will be going over what does a coach do and how do they use that toolkit? How do they set goals? How do they plan? How do they collect evidence? And then finally, how do they reflect with a teacher? And so that whole cycle will be within that pre-conference also. Yep. There's more too.

Misty 22:00

Oh, no, there's more after that even? But wait, there's

Joel 22:03

more.

Misty 22:04

more.

John 22:05

There's still more.

Joel 22:06

good

Misty 22:06

what's the still more?

John 22:10

There's a couple more pieces actually. So, yep. So not only do we have the conference, but after the conference, we're going to actually pick up with another three, um, leadership learning labs. And so those labs are the first one is about in March. It will be about effective documentation when you're coaching. The second one is about co-teaching and teaching-- co-teaching strategies. And then the last one is planning and reflecting for the entire year. And so that's kind of the end of the school year we take you to, and then we, uh, we do have the event next year. At least we're planning the event for next year. Another, um, foundations for coaching in the summer of next year also. So if you miss this year you can attend next summer also and get some more in-depth learning around the, not only the toolkit, but all the skills required for coaching also

Joel 23:14

Great

Misty 23:15

And that's the th- that's gonna be a three-day event, right?

John 23:18

It will be a three-day event, yes

Misty 23:20

Nice. Nice. Wow, that is a, uh, smorgasbord. Yeah.

Tracy 23:26

Well, I guess I want to add in that, yeah, now we've finally arrived at, like, the, the total event and program its entirety. And I guess I would also, I would tag onto program, we wanted to provide a year-long learning progression for coaches and leaders. Um, we are beginning to realize how important it is for coaches and leaders to have places where they get to continue to lean into their own growth, and they get to continue to collaborate with others in similar roles but maybe different contexts so that they're getting to kind of like fill their own bucket of, of learning and growing. Uh, I, I have seen over, you know, my experience as a coach that, and I have felt that you can get really siloed, and that positions of leadership can feel really lonely at times. And so, um, one of our goals doing this is creating a space so that, uh, leaders and coaches who might be under some pretty serious time constraints can, can tune in and still have live support through these virtual events. And then of course, we really hope to meet you in person at the conference because you form those connections, and you've just gotta go so that we can all meet in person.

Joel 24:44

Absolutely

Misty 24:45

Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so picture, lots of support throughout the year, lots of different ways to engage. Could do, like, for definitely in all the virtual things that are gonna be each month, you can engage with some as you can. We'd love to see you at the teacher conference for the whole thread. And how-- like, what is the big, like, the synopsis that, you know, like, tell me if I wanna get involved, like, w- what, like, we're gonna propose some information, but what is it that I really need to do? Like, is

How To Register And What Support Fixes

Misty 25:17

there a place to sign up? Is there a place to get on a mailing list? Like, what is the actual... Am I registering somewhere? Like, what am I doing to get signed up for this?

Tracy 25:27

We have a, we have information, um, on our page of our, our cpm.org. The section devoted to site-based leadership is what you would be looking for. And inside that site-based leadership page, there are links for you to register, and you'll wanna look for our title, the Leading Together: A Coaching and Learning Collaborative. And specifically, you'll wanna start by signing up with the Leadership Labs, and then you'll continue to get more information from us when you attend those

Misty 26:00

All right. Anything we haven't asked you that you need to tell us?

John 26:07

No, I think, I, I just think, you know, we wanna know why some of our coaching conversations don't actually affect change in the classroom, and it's because many of the pieces that, or some of the pieces that I mentioned earlier might be missing. The, the coach may not have the skill set, the coach may not have time, the coach may not have support, um, all, all of those things. So much of what we're doing is addressing those systems that may impact coaches negatively and get them to question whether or not that is a productive or an unproductive system. And as Tracy would probably mention, you know, how do you want-- what do you wanna be called when you walk into a classroom? Do you wanna be called a coach? Because if you do, your teachers need to see you as a coach, meaning you need to be spending most of your time coaching and not doing other things, you know, in your district. And so many of these sessions are ways to navigate through those systems, those systems that might be impacting you unproductively and to give you the language to talk about them also.

Tracy 27:30

I want to add on for our leaders also we are coming to realize and see more and more about how it, important it is for, um, leaders and administrators to be able to use soft coaching skills as well. I've s- met many administrators and, and leaders who kind of came into the position really hoping to, um, you know, be that clear leader, provide a shared vision, build collective agency within their staffs. And when that goal isn't, you know, happening for them, um, it can be really frustrating. And I've heard specifically s- sitting in an evaluatory role makes it really difficult to achieve some of those things because, you know, having the trust and building that foundation of psychological safety with your staff so that those things can happen can be a challenge in a leadership role. And a really good answer to achieving that goal is that you need to be able to put on the coaching hat and use those coaching skills, and that is a great vehicle to, you know, uh, create a, a place where change and growth can happen for your staff

Misty 28:39

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, the two of you, for coming on today and talking about this amazing collaborative program. I mean, it's, it's, like, it's a whole slew of things, so I really appreciate that you have worked so hard to put it together and are offering it to all these coaches and leaders and teachers out there. So we hope to get a lot of people engaged and

Joel 29:02

To, uh, quote, quote you both, everybody needs a coach. And

Misty 29:06

needs a coach

John 29:07

Everybody needs a coach. Yep. Yep, love it. Thank you, Misty. Thank you, Joel

Wrap Up And Dot Day Teaser

Misty 29:20

So that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math For More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description. And the music for the podcast was created by Julius H. and can be found on pixabay.com. So thank you very much, Julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math For More People. What day will that be, Joel?

Joel 29:46

It'll be September 15th, Dot Day. And even if we can never think that we can do anything, we can always start with a dot grow from there. Our creativity, our wonderment, our thinking all just starts with a dot. So I'm excited to explain the day. I just learned about it. Looking forward to hearing Misty's ideas about creativity and how the brain starts with a dot and moves from there. So we'll see you on September the 15th. Looking forward to having you join us.