More Math for More People
CPM Educational Program is a non-profit publisher of math textbooks for grades 6-12. As part of its mission, CPM provides a multitude of professional learning opportunities for math educators. The More Math for More People podcast is part of that outreach and mission. Published biweekly, the hosts, Joel Miller and Misty Nikula, discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. They also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do. We hope that you find the podcast informative, engaging and fun. Intro music credit: JuliusH from pixabay.com.
More Math for More People
Episode 5.7: Who is this Rafael del Castillo person and what does he want?
First, we discuss National Couscous Day (not to be confused with National Quinoa Day...). Please read that out loud a few times so that you can join in our fun and delight in saying the word "couscous"!
Then, Rafael Del Castillo joins the More Math for More People podcast to share his fascinating journey from CPM math teacher to CPM Educational Program's Executive Director. His story reveals how a classroom transformation sparked an entire leadership philosophy.
After moving from Miami to Seattle and switching from high school to middle school teaching, Rafael discovered his traditional methods weren't working. Through CPM, he found a revolutionary approach that transformed not just his classroom but his entire concept of leadership. "When you deploy a CPM pedagogy, you really share your power as a teacher," Rafael explains, describing how this collaborative model led him to adopt servant leadership principles that have guided his career.
The parallels between effective classrooms and effective organizations are striking. Just as CPM teachers distribute authority and facilitate rather than dictate, Rafael applies these same principles in leading. His approach focuses on "listening to learn, not listening to respond" – developing the talents of everyone around him while maintaining a strategic vision.
Today's educational landscape demands urgent evolution. The merging of curriculum development organizations with educational technology groups signals a fundamental shift in how we approach teaching and learning. While students may be comfortable using technology, Rafael cautions they remain "digital naives" who need guidance on responsible use. As education and technology continue their rapid integration, CPM's collaborative principles become increasingly relevant.
Rafael's journey demonstrates how pedagogical philosophies can transform leadership across various contexts. His story reminds us that whether in classrooms or boardrooms, the most effective leaders are those who empower others while maintaining a clear strategic vision. Listen now to discover how these principles might transform your own approach to leadership and learning.
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org
You are listening to the More Math for More People podcast. An outreach of CPM educational program Boom. An outreach of CPM Educational Program.
Speaker 2:Boom, I can't believe it's August already. It's crazy, yeah, so today's the 5th of August, dog Days of Summer are here. Yes, I don't know what that means actually Dog Days of Summer. I'm going to look that up later. I don't either, I guess. Okay, I mean dogs Because means actually Dog Days of Summer.
Speaker 1:I'm going to look that up later. I don't either, I guess, because today is not the Dog Days of Summer. No, it's not. This is.
Speaker 2:National Dog Days of Summer.
Speaker 1:We're in the Dog Days of Summer.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that really means. It's one of those things that I know what it means, but I don't know what it means. Okay, so it is August 5th though. So it is August 5th though. So what is our national?
Speaker 1:day today, national Couscous Day.
Speaker 2:Couscous. Such a fun. That's a fun word to say Couscous.
Speaker 1:I like it. Are you a couscous fan? I don't know that I am. Like I don't ever order anything. I don't crave couscous. You don't crave couscous. I kind of know what it is.
Speaker 2:You kind of know what it is. You kind of know what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't really seek it out. How about you? Do you like the couscous? I think?
Speaker 2:couscous. Like I went through a phase definitely where I ate a lot more couscous. I think it has like some appeal to it. It's also interesting because it's like it's not really like a pasta and it's not like it's a grain, but it's a funny grain because it has those little curled up sprouty guys in it. I don't know. It's interesting to me and I think that it can be made into things that are delicious, and then also I think it gets overdone. You know, like everything's couscous salad. You could get a couscous salad at any deli, in any grocery store in most of America.
Speaker 1:And it would probably taste the same. Probably, I mean the spices maybe change. I was gonna say, like the spices probably put it almost the same.
Speaker 2:They have like a little bit of olives in. It'll have some like whatever flavors, I don't know. I feel like they're, they're very uh. I feel like like there was a thing like maybe, oh wait, am I thinking of quinoa? Uh-oh, I think I might have this whole thing talking about quinoa. Now I'm confused Now.
Speaker 3:I don't know the difference.
Speaker 1:Wait, I think.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of quinoa.
Speaker 1:Oh no Well, which is healthier quinoa or couscous?
Speaker 2:I don't know, because now I'm confused about them. Oh, quinoa is like planty ones. Yeah, quinoa has complete proteins.
Speaker 1:So therefore it's healthier, more healthy than couscous.
Speaker 2:Both quinoa and couscous are both fun to see the AI overview tells me they're both versatile grains or grain-like substances which is kind of a funny thing to say. Couscous is a processed grain product, typically made from semolina, while quinoa is a seed, technically, and often prepared and consumed like a grain. Oh yeah, couscous is the one that's more like pasta, so I don't think I eat it very much anymore.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. What about? When was couscous invented?
Speaker 2:invented. I'm kidding, how about is it? It's kind of like a mediterranean thing, right? So I would think that couscous has been around for a long time, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:It says its existence would be unlikely if it was earlier than 6,000 BC.
Speaker 2:Its existence would be unlikely if it was earlier than yes, because it's. So if we went back in time, to 6,001 BC, its existence would be unlikely in that time frame?
Speaker 1:Yes, that would be unlikely, because it's made from ground wheat. Like you were just saying, it's processed.
Speaker 2:So we have the processing ability.
Speaker 1:It says it got to the Middle East because Christians kicked out Muslims and Jews from Spain, and so they brought the couscous to the Middle East.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Okay, I know.
Speaker 2:That is interesting.
Speaker 1:It was no interesting, I'm just thinking about that I'm like wouldn't, we like the time frames and different things of that Totally. What do you think couscous is best paired with Wine?
Speaker 2:No couscous. I think couscous would be good with like white meats.
Speaker 1:I think that maybe says something about what you would like to pair it with Cause. This says it pairs well with almost everything.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's sort of a like you know, that's one of those questions there's like what does it pair best with? Oh, trick everything.
Speaker 1:All of the above. Yes, you are correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think couscous has a better, like a slightly better flavor than quinoa though this wasn't couscous versus quinoa day, but now it is since. I got confused.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, fair enough. How do you think you would celebrate Couscous Day?
Speaker 2:I might have some actual couscous, since I haven't had any for quite a long time. I know that I have made it in the past, but maybe I'll. What are you going to do to celebrate National Couscous Day?
Speaker 1:I'm enjoying saying couscous, as we mentioned before, so I might just go around saying it, but the suggested activities are similar to your celebration.
Speaker 2:You could eat couscous, that seems kind of obvious you could go to a restaurant and eat couscous. Also obvious.
Speaker 1:Or you could try a new recipe with couscous and then eat it.
Speaker 2:I think that's pretty much you know, but there's not much else you could do with couscous other than eat it. I mean, I don't even think it would be good for like pasta. Necklaces or art, like other semolina products might be couscous Not just yeah, all right, well it. Art like other simulita products might be couscous not just yeah, all right. Well, it's national couscous day. We're gonna say say it at least two more times, so please go and enjoy, okay. So I'm really excited that we're here today with Rafael Del Castillo. Yeah, he's our new boss's boss, joel.
Speaker 1:Oh, I actually knew that I acted surprised, but I knew that that was the case. Oh, that's good Because if you were surprised, I'd be worried.
Speaker 2:So Raphael is the incoming executive director for CPM and we welcome you to the podcast today, Raphael.
Speaker 3:Yeah, welcome. Thank you, misty. Thank you Joel. I guess I'm the boss of all bosses, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that. The boss of all bosses. Boss squared Well, at least it might be more of a bosses. So I'm sure people other than knowing you're the boss of all bosses people might wonder who is this Raphael person? Yeah, so we thought we'd start with you.
Speaker 3:Just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to here. Yeah, yeah, I love that question, so I could start from the very beginning. You know a small boy coming from Cuba to the United States. I'm going to fast forward just a little bit and talk about my CPM journey, when it started with me as a teacher. So who am I.
Speaker 3:I am originally, if you will, a math teacher math and science for many years, about 20 years, before I started my leadership journey that led me to this position as the executive director, and CPM both transformed my classroom and my practice in teaching mathematics, but it also put me on a road to leadership. So I have CPM to thank for opening my eyes, as a classroom teacher, to what is possible when you extend yourself, you know, to leading a department, leading a school, leading a nonprofit. But you know, I very often kind of revert back to that teacher mode. I think, when you are in the role of listening to the people around you, whether they're in kindergarten or full-grown adults and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which, whether they're in kindergarten or full-grown adults, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which that if you listen to folks and you approach leadership as teaching, you know teaching and listening to learn and to understand, instead of necessarily listening to formulate a response. So that's just one gem that I took from the classroom to my leadership Right now.
Speaker 1:Where did that journey start? Oh gosh, geographical spot.
Speaker 3:Well, we had my spouse and I moved from Miami to Seattle, which my mom always said is as far as you can go geographically from Miami without you know, staying in the continental United States.
Speaker 3:So it was a big move, yeah, along many parameters, and it was my introduction to middle school. So I had always taught math and science in the high school, you know, and I fancied myself a pretty good teacher. I think kids would say I was okay. But I feel like I got so much better. I almost want to go back and say sorry I wish I'd known then.
Speaker 3:But I think I was pretty decent.
Speaker 3:And then I moved into middle school because we arrived here in January and so I really was looking to start a position mid-year which I'd never done before and I landed at Villa Academy here in Seattle K-8 school, fabulous school, fun kids and I was charged with teaching the eighth graders algebra and all the things I had accumulated you know, tips, tricks, strategies in the high school just did not work.
Speaker 3:In middle school. They were completely unimpressed with my resume. In fact they really needed a different kind of engagement and I realized almost immediately that this had to be different and I went out looking for a different curricular approach and I ran across CPM at an NCTM conference, the National Conference for Teachers of Mathematics, and I couldn't close my eyes and remember Chris Michaels was there at that booth and we started a conversation and, long story short, I ended up bringing that to the classroom with, I think, great success, particularly for the students. I ended up being a teacher leader, ultimately Washington State regional coordinator, and a few years down the road of my leadership journey I did serve on the board for a bit. So coming to CPM in this role feels very much like coming home.
Speaker 3:It's very much like a full circle moment Nice.
Speaker 2:Nice. So I love how you connected your move to leadership with really the changes you saw in your classroom. I'm wondering if you can, you know, elaborate on that a little bit around how you see maybe your leadership style coming in as executive director to you know, to that those changes and kind of CPM philosophies. Right, how do those mesh together?
Speaker 3:That's a really good question. That's intriguing. So I have very much adopted the serpent leadership model. It's a gentleman named Greenleaf put it together quite some time ago and it's this notion that leadership is about developing the best in the folks around you, right, and it's reciprocal in developing the best in you. So the servant leader really looks to maximize human talent by coaching again, listening to learn, not always listening to respond or necessarily even direct.
Speaker 3:So that servant leadership model, I have to believe was influenced by my CPM experience, because when you deploy a CPM pedagogy into the classroom, you really share your power as a teacher, right. You are no longer the source of knowledge and information, there are multiple sources and all of a sudden you see what's possible by putting leadership at each table right and exploring the different ways kids can lead the group and add value to the group. So certainly that framework is what I took into leadership and whether you're talking about you know a group, five groups of four, or you know seven departments, I think that a similar approach can be taken and I took it.
Speaker 2:And I think it worked.
Speaker 3:I think it worked because I remember once upon a time a direct report sort of characterized my leadership as as you don't leave anyone behind, and I really I took that to heart and I really remember that because that is my intention. It doesn't mean, you know, you have rose-colored classes all the time and you have a Pollyanna approach, but you really do bring the whole group forward and try as best you can to develop all those people.
Speaker 1:You had mentioned that you worked with other nonprofits and led other nonprofits. Was that outside of education? And then I'm curious did the CPM help translate you in those fields too?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say. I mean they were definitely education adjacent. So the two nonprofits I led were Rainier Scholars, which is a college access organization here in Seattle modeled after Prep for Prep in New York. It's this notion of bringing families of color, kids of color, you know, to and through college with a very comprehensive program. So definitely adjacent. And I also had the wonderful opportunity to be the interim executive director of the Kids Discovery Museum here on Bainbridge Isle where we live. It's a museum for little ones, magical. If you're ever on the island you got to visit, whether you're a kid or not. To be honest, tell them I sent you and I would say that because they were education adjacent.
Speaker 3:It was pretty easy, you know, to see that. But I will home in on governance. You know the board structure that is present in all across. You know schools, nonprofits, to realize that the CPM way, if you will, is something to be looked at. I'm not saying that they directly took it from CPM the way I did, but boards are recognizing that there's a bunch of smart people around the room, around the table, and we're not always maximizing their talents right. Sometimes it's like you're in a boardroom and anybody who's been in a boardroom knows, it's often a very directional flow of information and all of a sudden, all these really talented, smart people who you've recruited to your board are generally silent and they're receiving information and occasionally asking a question, and there is a real move toward a concept called generative boards where you take advantage of the people in that room, you find other ways to inform and, yeah, sometimes it means working in groups and some boardrooms.
Speaker 3:Today you'd walk in and you'd say, well, just like a CPM classroom, that's cool.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting. As you're talking about that, I was just having this connection for myself around around, there's so much that is happening in our world around. I'm gonna like use some really global term, you know, like general terms here around, like a western model of sort of top down you know who's in charge and what's happening and then a more collaborative someone, say, a more indigenous model of equals at a table and things. And I, just as you were talking about that, I was really hearing that that connection as well happening, hopefully, you know, in CPM and continuing in CPM and in the rest of the world and what you're describing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely. And even the even our rectangular approach to board meetings right versus a circle right. Just experimenting with a different configuration in boardrooms or department meetings or organizational meetings. Reframing the environment can often just reframe the conversation. Again, very CPM Like what are we about? We're about reframing and reconstructing the classroom and, uh, the relationship of the student with the teacher and with each other.
Speaker 2:So cool and and I want to shift from that a little bit because I I love what you're talking about with the like sort of like shared math authority we're trying to create in our classrooms right, and that same idea of like, according to some, like shared leadership, right, or shared direction and decision-making, however that might look in a company and in the classroom you have the teacher who's holding the vision, who's holding the direction, who knows where we're trying to go or where they want to try to go, and so how do you like, how do you talk about that parallel? A little bit now, for you Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I mean, I'll start with my role as a teacher and how it transformed. It wasn't just about future leadership, it was in the moment, my expanded capacity to do that direction, finding like to provide that compass. Suddenly, I wasn't stuck in a place of conveying information, but I could walk around, do a lot of that, listening to learn right, and then make strategic moves for the classroom, for the students, both as a whole group, individuals at different tables. So that is really you've nailed it. This is the heart of servant leadership, which is that you need to find a way to distribute that authority, power, responsibility, accountability, they all come together so that then you have that time, you know, to look beyond the horizon, to look around the mirrors, and you're not doing it alone, but you are, as the leader, right, as the compass, charged with that, and often you know our plates get really full and we start getting super busy and you want to make sure there's someone and some folks who are looking around corners and looking ahead. So, yeah, spot on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, the parallel with that in the classroom was when I stopped grading everyone's homework, stopped looking at every single problem all my kids had ever done and giving it a score, Like you guys are going to do this now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look how much more time I have and that has that has huge, that there's a direct connection there to goal setting evaluation and you, you know success plans for for folks, right?
Speaker 3:so, instead of grading every paper, you know, starting with a set of uh, self-generated goals that tie to some organizational goals. I found that to be really powerful and and the same way, we in the classroom discovered that sometimes kids are harder on themselves and their teammates than we predict. Individuals, when empowered with goal setting and with a success plan, are often holding themselves to a very, very high bar. Know and leadership partner and it's like, okay, it's us, us against the goals, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Instead of instead of this you know this unfortunately fraught supervisory structure that we have, particularly in the western part of of our globe, uh, that is often not very productive interesting yeah I'm wondering about, because you have this past history of CPM and now it's been continuous, maybe or whatever, but what back then stands out to you as still being the same, or what from back then to now feels different, just as a?
Speaker 3:coming in and out no-transcript, started teaching CPM way, right. It was seen as extraordinary because it was right. I would argue and this is a good thing that pedagogy, schools of education, all of the work toward preparing teachers, has become more CPM, like Right, like we are less extraordinary now because teachers are doing things like what we've been discussing Right Groups, you know, different strategies toward assessment and so on, and so I think that's both timeless, like we are still an extraordinary approach, but less extraordinary relative to the rest of the world. So what's the next leap for us? And then, you know, it would be kind of blind to not point out that the advances of technology are now like spiking.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was at that same school, bill Academy, I was part of one of the first one-to-one laptop programs.
Speaker 3:And I'll never forget, because the laptops, of course, were pretty clunky, but the device to connect was about the size of a brick. I kid you, not that you would attach to the laptop and then, because it was a hundred-year-old school, not that you would attach to the laptop, and then, because it was a hundred year old school, the cords to connect the laptop ran up into the ceiling. So I want you to just hold that image in your mind, that dystopian image of the clunky computers, the brick and wires extending up to the ceiling.
Speaker 3:And I say that because at the time we were like we are on the cutting edge and look where we are now, and I think you, it is both exciting and it is also our job as as as educators to to curate that, to curate that technology in classrooms that we believe should be student centered.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. When we were chatting before this, we talked about how the headline could be, you know, seamless transition, laughing about how that would not be the best headline. You know, nothing happened. It's not news, and so we've talked a little bit, I feel like how you see yourself moving into this position, how it fits for you, etc. You also mentioned that you feel a sense, or maybe there is a sense of some urgency and I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit as we move toward the end here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, seamless transition headline, not so much, but there is a sense of urgency, and it's not just for us, this isn't just CPM that needs to, you know, pick up its pace. Education is being transformed in a pretty significant way. Ascd and ISTE, these are two organizations, one curriculum development organization and the other ed tech organization, and I think here's a headline for you. These two organizations got married essentially and they are moving forward together in their conferencing, in their membership, all of the above. So that to me really is something to pay attention to. The curriculum development folks have acknowledged in a big way that we must develop curriculum with ed tech in mind, with technology in mind. And on the flip side, ed tech, you know, and I'm making a very broad statement here but ed tech recognizes that if they are putting tools into the hands of teachers, they need to be informed by good curricular choices and good curricular frameworks. Right, so that is a worthy headline and that presents the urgency for an organization like CPM. So CPM has always been innovative, creative in its solutions and, as I said earlier, we are less extraordinary. A lot of folks are bringing creativity and really interesting solutions into that combo curricular development, ed tech world, interesting solutions into that combo curricular development, ed tech world but we do have those timeless elements, right. We are really good at understanding how students learn mathematics. We have structures that transcend curricular frameworks and transcend tech solutions. So we're still a key player in this conversation, but it's going to move really quickly. We're still a key player in this conversation, but it's going to move really quickly.
Speaker 3:Another thing that struck me at the conference were these two amazing fourth graders who were on Zoom presenting to about 100 teachers Wow, and a couple of things. They were completely nonplussed, right. So they've been using this technology in a pretty seamless and invisible way, like you could tell that they were there to show the teachers all the cool stuff they can do with this tool. They were not there to highlight the tool itself, and it was so evident and so interesting to watch that, and I think that's where we're at to watch that, and I think that's where we're at. We're going to be catching up hence the sense of urgency with the students who are going to use these tools. They're already using these tools and it's our responsibility to help guide and curate this thing. I don't know if you remember the term digital natives. For a while, it was like all the younger generations were digital natives, and while it was like all the younger generations were digital natives.
Speaker 3:And we old folk like me, you know, were digital immigrants, and I then encountered a different framework in that these young people are digital naives. Just because they're facile with the technology itself does not mean they understand all the repercussions of using it. You know questions of privacy, questions of like what's, what's what? You know, what are the other factors that come into play so we can't default our curation and our engagement with students and techno.
Speaker 1:I can see that being part of CPM too, with our collaboration, with our how how to help people understand how to communicate, cause, like you said, we are, uh, who are here now of a generation where we kind of had to learn. We, we learned skills and strategies to communicate with each other in a different way. Now we have technology that students are engaged in and understand, but they need to learn how to learn, not the rules, but the way to interact with each other that are appropriate, and so we have to get knowledgeable about that Well and rapidly.
Speaker 3:The intergenerational flow of knowledge now happens like in a decade, versus once upon a time, maybe a century, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's about all we have time for today, I think, and we have really enjoyed talking with you, rafael, and we are planning to talk with you again on some frequency. We'll have some more conversaciones con Rafael later on, so thanks for being with us.
Speaker 3:You know where to find me. We do, we usually find you pretty easily. A pleasure. Thank you for having me Absolutely. Thank you you're probably not going to be able to use it, but it's okay well, who cares?
Speaker 2:okay?
Speaker 1:so here's your on the spot the question do you have a favorite math joke that you'd like to share?
Speaker 3:I do, I do. It's a very corny groany joke.
Speaker 1:So it's. What does a mermaid wear? I don't know, what does a mermaid?
Speaker 2:wear, I don't know, algebra, algebra. So that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius H and can be found on pixabaycom. So thank you very much, julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1:It'll be August 26th, national Toilet Paper Day. I personally appreciate toilet paper every day, but I can put myself in a mindset where I'm thinking of what if I didn't have toilet paper, and that makes me appreciate it that much more. So we'll talk about why we celebrate National Toilet Paper Day, the history behind Toilet Paper Day, and we can all appreciate having toilet paper. So looking forward to having you join us on August 26th. We'll see you then, thank you.