More Math for More People
CPM Educational Program is a non-profit publisher of math textbooks for grades 6-12. As part of its mission, CPM provides a multitude of professional learning opportunities for math educators. The More Math for More People podcast is part of that outreach and mission. Published biweekly, the hosts, Joel Miller and Misty Nikula, discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. They also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do. We hope that you find the podcast informative, engaging and fun. Intro music credit: JuliusH from pixabay.com.
More Math for More People
Episode 5.5: Pet Fire Safety plus Latrenda Knighten Part 1
First, we start off with National Pet Safety Day. How will you celebrate? Well, if you want to get a Save our Pets sticker? You could go here.
Then, what does it take to lead one of the the largest mathematics education organization in the world? Latrenda Knighton, current president of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM), opens up about her journey from kindergarten teacher to mathematics education leader in part one of this insightful conversation.
Drawing from over three decades in education, Latrenda shares how her early experiences with professional organizations shaped her approach to leadership. "I started as an affiliate leader and member very early in my teaching career," she explains, highlighting how these connections provided support beyond what was available at the school level. Now as NCTM president, she's focused on strengthening these affiliate relationships while expanding professional development opportunities for educators everywhere.
The heart of Latrenda's mission revolves around three key priorities. First, supporting teachers through accessible professional learning opportunities beyond traditional conferences – including webinars, journals, and podcasts that meet educators where they are. Second, highlighting the critical importance of early mathematics education, which she champions through partnerships with early childhood organizations. And third, ensuring students across all grade levels engage in meaningful, sense-making mathematical experiences.
"An engaged student is a more productive student, is a more confident student," LaTrenda emphasizes, distinguishing between student engagement and mere entertainment. She advocates for mathematics instruction that helps students make connections between concepts and real-world applications, building on their existing knowledge while preparing them for future learning.
The episode also features Andy Peterson-Longmore introducing her Teacher Research Community project focused on bringing joy and fun back to high school mathematics classrooms without sacrificing rigor or content. Her work complements Latrenda's vision of mathematics education that empowers both teachers and students.
Tune in to this rich conversation about mathematics education leadership, and don't miss part two coming next week where we'll dive deeper into professional development and the future of mathematics teaching and learning.
You can connect with Latrenda through X (@LatrendaK).
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
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Speaker 2:It's July 15th, it's the middle of summer already.
Speaker 1:Well, it's getting more of the summer months.
Speaker 2:It's the middle of the summer months, july 15th. Yeah yeah, middle of summer, that's a really interesting concept to figure out, but we'll come back to that.
Speaker 1:In the Northern hemisphere.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, so what is a national day today?
Speaker 1:today is. It's about awareness. It's a national pet fire safety day oh, national pet fire safety day, yeah, cool yeah, I have.
Speaker 2:I have some pet fire safety.
Speaker 1:Tell me about it.
Speaker 2:Tactics. Yeah, I don't know what the word I wanted there is.
Speaker 1:I'd like to know.
Speaker 2:I have a little sticker that I got off a website I don't remember I think it cost me a couple dollars or something. That is like a Save Our Pets sticker and then I put it on my front door and then when fire rescue people come to my house, if they ever have to and I hope they never do then it tells them how many pets are inside my house. Yeah, and I have one for my, my apartment downstairs and I have one for the upstairs apartment.
Speaker 1:when there's pets up there, oh, wow, so does do you change it If, like more pets come to the house? Yep, I more pets come to the house. I have changed it several times since I've been here. That's good.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think when I got them, I got several and I, you know, I've had, I've had various tenants upstairs who've had pets or not had pets or had pets and not had pets, and then more pets went away for various reasons or came, more pets came and so, yeah, I've had to change it several times.
Speaker 2:Interesting, that's good to know. It's got a little like white sticky little dot number because it has so many cats and so many dogs and for a while, when I had Tabby Chick, I had you know one very small and blind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that I bet that really helps, like the emergency folks. Yeah To know.
Speaker 2:I hope so.
Speaker 1:Because they well, I hope so Well, they want to know. I think Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they want to save all the living things in the building. Yeah, so yeah, what does it say in your thing about fire, pet safety?
Speaker 1:Well it talks about you could have a fire drill and practice with your pets like what you would do.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm trying to think of how I could practice that with Owen and Bella. That would be interesting.
Speaker 1:I think, wendell, I'd have to pick him up because I think he'd be like, hey, there's a fire there and there's no way I'm running through that.
Speaker 2:Well, he wouldn't have actual fire in the fire drill. I don't think.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just saying if there was a fire like if. I'm practicing. I would have to carry.
Speaker 2:You're just practicing, taking him outside. Yeah, exactly, carry he's you're just practicing taking him outside. Yeah, exactly, um it talks about how pets can start fires.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've seen several of these on like tiktok videos and things so like with the electrical cords is one way.
Speaker 2:If you've got something on the stove and they jump up there, that's a something that could happen I saw one where a dog inadvertently started a fire with like a maybe a cell phone battery or something like it, overheated in some way and caught on fire in the rug and the dogs were all like whoa. It's a very funny video. I'm sure you could find it. But yeah, All right. So it's just sort of like fireproofing your house to make sure your pets are not starting fires inadvertently.
Speaker 1:And it talks about your sticker idea in the window. How many house fires do you think are caused by pets each year?
Speaker 2:in the.
Speaker 1:United States In the United.
Speaker 2:States A thousand.
Speaker 1:A thousand. What?
Speaker 2:Yes, Wow oh it's right on the nose, bing, wow, that's amazing. What? Yes, wow, I was right on the nose, bing Wow. That's amazing, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good.
Speaker 2:I don't know how many house fires there are in the US, but in any given year on average.
Speaker 1:Well, here's another little fun fact that makes me giggle a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, got it.
Speaker 1:Let me phrase it this way what year do you think that people made pets? This is the year where people make pets.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say prehistoric times.
Speaker 1:A little bit after that. 13,000 BC, that's when people make pets make pets? Huh interesting, I don't know, what that has to do with ai write your, write your website. This is interesting.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I think that when we, I think that archaeologists, whoever, anthropologists, whoever think about these things, like when they think about domesticating- wolves and dogs. It's around, I feel, like it's around 10 to 15, so that would be somewhere in there. Like they keep trying to like kind of narrow it down and it's always a little bit late. Early, like soon, like earlier whatever farther ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah then, then they were thinking, so probably true um the which pet do you think is the symbol of the firehouse?
Speaker 2:uh, isn't it the dalmatian?
Speaker 1:it is you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're doing it, I'm cooking today. I got two for three nice you're on fire oh quick yeah safety, safety get the dogs out. What are you? What are you going to do to celebrate? I think I'm gonna adapt your sticker idea. I like that idea that if something were to happen, safety, get the dogs out. What are you going to do to celebrate National Fire Pet Safety?
Speaker 1:I think I'm going to adapt your sticker idea. I like that idea that if something were to happen, somebody should know who's in the house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in fact, maybe we'll put a little. I know, I just Googled it and found it, but we could put a link in the description.
Speaker 1:I think that'd be great, but there's lots of people that would appreciate that Totally, but there's lots of people that would appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, and sometimes yeah, maybe I'll do a fire drill. I think it would be funny for me to just kind of like go through the house going because you know how much that my dogs love the fire alarm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we'll spend the rest of the evening calming them back down.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask if you were going to use a whistle, and I think a whistle would be more preferable to that sound that you just made.
Speaker 2:So you can choose, you'll have to let us know how it goes. I can choose. I can choose. Yeah, okay, sounds good. So I'm very happy to announce one of our new segments for this coming school year.
Speaker 2:We did join them on their journey a year or so ago. We didn't have one last school year, but I think a year before. Would that be like the 23, 24 school year? No, that seems way too long ago, but maybe. Anyway, we did a Join them on their Journey in the past and we had some teachers One was new to the profession and one was a more veteran teacher but was changing curricula and this year we're going to have another Join them on their Journey, but this time it's going to be with one of our teacher research community teachers. And so this is Andy Peterson Longmore. She has been with the TRC for a few years and she's going to just launch into her conversation here about her project and the recent meeting of the TRC group that happened in Salt Lake City last week. So here you go. Here's Andy Peterson-Longmore. Join her on her TRC journey this year.
Speaker 4:Hey there, I'm Andy Peterson-Longmore, also known as PL to my students. A little bit of background on me. I live and work in Neenah, wisconsin, at Neenah High School. My husband and I have been married for seven years. We're currently fostering to adopt a little baby boy. I coach speech and debate outside of the classroom. I'm also the Wisconsin Forensics Coaches Association president, district 9 chair for the Wisconsin Interscholastic Speech and Dramatic Arts Association, and then I also serve as the National Speech and Debate Association district chair for Northern Wisconsin. I also coach our high school's math team and I was previously the statistician for the Fox Valley Math League, which is just in kind of the Appleton area of Wisconsin. I also serve as our math department chair and I work at Lambeau Field as a supervisor in the Usher and Text Message team. So I've been a teacher for 12 years.
Speaker 4:This is my ninth year in MENA and we adopted CPM about four years ago. So I've been teaching all four years with CPM and I have a kind of a unique perspective on it because back in the day when I was a student at Ashwaubenon High School, I was actually a student of CPM. So shout out to those Jaguar math teachers for giving me a good foundation. I am teaching Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 this upcoming year in the CCA and CCA 2 books, but I previously taught geometry. I usually switch back and forth between Algebra 1 and geometry just depending on what my department needs. When I was a student, shabadan was using the integrated model I'm not sure if they still are so I did math 1 through 5 at that point. So I have kind of a lot of background with CPM, which has kind of been a fun part of being a part of the research community now, because I get a lot of perspective from not only my time as a teacher but also thinking back on my own experience as a student.
Speaker 4:So I joined the research team three years ago, so this is my third year as part of the community and a lot of times people ask you do a lot of stuff, so why are you doing this? Why are you spending this time doing extra PD over your summer? And it's going to sound incredibly nerdy, I'm sure, but I just love the PD. So for me I don't really find a lot of value in what my school does as district PD and that's not a dig on my school. They do wonderful PD. It's just that it's usually built for a lot of our lowest common denominator, so people who don't do a lot of things outside of the classroom on their own. So there are a lot of things that I'm already aware of. For example, there was when my first couple of years at the high school I was teaching, their PD was spent talking about how to organize your Google Drive, and that's great for people who need that, but I just really I was already way beyond that and it just didn't feel very useful for me. So for me, this serves as PD that I feel really, really good about and I feel like is making me a better teacher. So if you join the research team, a lot of times you're thinking about what am I actually going to be doing when I spend that week with the group? So each summer, we spend usually a week in July where we get together in person and do all of our kind of institute stuff. So we just call it like our kickoff every year.
Speaker 4:And when I think about it, for me there's kind of like three main things that happen. So thing number one that always sticks out in my mind is our shared reading. So every year, we have this shared reading that the leaders bring to us. My first year, it talked about metaphorical terms that we use in schools and how they impact students and our perception of students. It was all around metaphorical terms, so, for example, it talked a lot about words like ahead or behind, and it talked about how, like we always use these words that suggest learning is linear and that if you don't know this one particular skill, that you can't really move on, and so there's this strange tension that you feel between where students actually fall on the spectrum of their knowledge, because it's not really linear, so it was really eye-opening for me. This year's reading, though, was about the tension we feel between what we believe students should learn in a year and what we believe the students are capable of, so like not having enough time to teach all the things we think we should be able to teach, but also feeling that tension of they're not ready for us to move on. I just find this shared reading idea so fascinating, because it gives us a really great opportunity to really take a look at the minute details of our practice, the things that we might not even realize are having a real impact on ourselves and on our students, so I absolutely love them. They're usually run by one of the guys who run helps run the program, mickey, and he's just brilliant. So it's really fun to listen and to get his perspective on all of these things.
Speaker 4:The second big part of what we do is a lot of team bonding. So I can't stress enough how much I have enjoyed working with this team. So there are 20 of us here this year and I really would consider each of them a friend. That includes the leadership team. So these teachers are from all across the US. They are literally from New York to California. So, selfishly for me, I really love that there are four of us from within Wisconsin. So we always have kind of like our own little Wisconsin team when we're at Institute and we always check in with each other and, you know, spend a lot of time together. It was really wonderful to spend time with everybody, especially our Wisconsin friends, but everybody and just kind of chat with people and just kind of chat with people.
Speaker 4:So for me I had kind of a hard experience coming into the Institute in Utah. I got stuck in Denver overnight on Sunday into Monday and I was supposed to be there Sunday night. But it was so wonderful because after that kind of cluster on Sunday into Monday, I got to walk into the meeting right at 1130, which was three and a half hours later than expected, but I got cheers, applause, hugs from people, even people I hadn't directly worked with in the past. So it was just so wonderful to feel that kind of community come together like a thank God, you made it. But the other thing that the leadership team does for us to help us kind of foster that team bonding is each day we get two breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, as well as an hour-long lunch and you can kind of spend that however you want.
Speaker 4:So as a team, as the like 20 of us, we tend to kind of group up in one big group or like two separate groups and spend time together just chatting and catching up on people's lives. So this year I spent all of my breaks inside because it was way too hot in Utah for me as a Wisconsin girl. But I got to spend a lot of time talking with Judy Kish, who's one of the original authors of the CPM, as well as a few of the other researchers. But beyond just those like breaks during the day, we do a lot of really cool things that I think are really fun in the evenings. The other thing that we do that I think is really fun is we have a group chat where all of the people who are involved in TRC, including leadership, are in this text message group chat and we share ideas and kind of support each other all year long. So all of that time together means that even the new research feel like they're part of the team very quickly. I tend to be a little bit more reserved when meeting new people and I joined knowing no one on the team at all, but by the end of the first year I really felt good about having a great group of people around me that I could talk to.
Speaker 4:We keep saying it's a research community, but I haven't even mentioned the research as part of what we do at Institute and of course, that's going to be our third thing that we really spend a lot of time on. The thing that I really love about it is that we start talking about what we want to research right away on Monday. So the leaders do a great job of taking all of our ideas and kind of grouping them in together to help us connect with people who are interested in the same idea. So if you're familiar with building thinking classrooms, we always start with VNPSs, or vertical non-permanent white spaces, and have our big ideas on them that we kind of pick at and think about. So they might be things like assessment or social justice or consolidation note-taking strategies, and they just have us walk around, pick at those different ideas and kind of put things that are sticking out to us about those particular areas. Once we've done that, they have us choose the areas we're feeling the most interested in doing research around and then they group us together. So you have a team of usually somewhere between two and five people who are all interested in the same topic.
Speaker 4:Once you get into your little group it's not permanent, which is kind of nice and I'll come back to that in a minute here but you get to lay out what you call your problem of practice, and that problem is just going to be what guides your work throughout the year. Basically it's what are you noticing? That's the problem in what we're doing right now and the thing you want to fix. Once you've laid out your problem of practice, you've got kind of an idea of what it is you're trying to fix. You start thinking about. What are some of the things that you're going to try or think about to help fix the problem that you've laid out. So we spent a lot of our second and third day at the Institute hammering those out and deciding where our focuses would be in each of our groups.
Speaker 4:Now, for me, I started on Monday in one group around the idea of pre-calculus and that class and what does it mean, and it just didn't feel quite like what I wanted to research and I ended up being able to change groups, which is wonderful because they let you choose and think about what is going to make the most sense for what you want to research. So then on the second day I ended up moving into a new group focusing more on like joy and fun in the high school classroom. So my research, like I said, is joy and fun in the high school classroom, because one of the things that kind of has stuck out to me and a couple of the other researchers is there's always this focus on making learning fun and making learning joyful and playful in the elementary classrooms and even up into a little bit into middle school classrooms. But our high school students are kind of not getting that same experience and there's nothing to suggest that learning shouldn't be fun or joyful or playful at the high school level. So we're just looking for ways to redefine joy for our students and figure out what we can change to bring that joy back into our math classroom.
Speaker 4:So in Neenah we just got a new building a couple of years ago and the cool part about this new building is it's built in pods and the pods are surrounding like an open space where students can work and each of our classrooms has a large amount of windows in the front of it, so like a sliding glass door sort of situation. And the cool part is I get to look and see what other teachers are doing in other classrooms, like while I'm teaching or while I'm on prep or anything. And there was a teacher who was across the hall from me for a little while. His name was Mr Feedy and he taught in social studies and he just had the most amazing classes. I would watch the students. They'd be like cowering under desks, pretending to be part of some sort of battle. They would be putting things out, they'd be laughing and it was just amazing to watch and it just reminded me how much I wanted to see that kind of joy in my classroom as well. So that's kind of where I started from when I started thinking about what I wanted to research this year, to be a little bit more like Mr Keathe. So throughout the course of this year, that's going to be.
Speaker 4:My main focus is what can I do to bring joy and fun back into the math classroom but also keep it productive and helpful. So showing them ways to have fun but also to do the things that we still need to do, and seeing where we can go with it and if it does actually bring the fun back and if students still continue to learn. My team and I. So I'm working with Daniel and Matt from the research team and we're going to be presenting at the conference this year. And there's also a second group who's also interested in joy and fun and they're coming at it from a totally different way. So we're really excited to meet up with them in February at the conference and just see what happens when we try out all these different ideas and if we have similar results or if we are totally different. So hopefully you enjoyed getting to know me a little bit and I hope you keep following along in the next couple of months, as you learn a little bit about my research.
Speaker 2:So this week on the podcast, we have a part one of a conversation with Latrenda Knighton. Latrenda Knighton is the president of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics, nctm, an international mathematics education organization with more than 25,000 members. She began her two-year term as president near the end of 2024, so she's not quite a year into it. She has been an educator for more than 30 years and recently retired as mathematics curriculum supervisor in Baton Rouge, louisiana.
Speaker 2:Latrenda has been a classroom teacher, an elementary science specialist, an elementary mathematics coach, a district instructional coach and a mathematical content trainer. Latrenda is the co-author of two books Classroom Ready, rich Math Tasks, grade K-1, and Answers to your Biggest Questions About Teaching Elementary Math K-5. She is a frequent speaker at mathematics education conferences and a regular presenter at workshops providing ongoing professional development for practicing teachers. As a passionate advocate for high-quality mathematics instruction for all students, she is active in several mathematics professional organizations in which she has served in leadership roles. We were really excited to talk with Latrenda and we hope you enjoy part one of our conversation with her. All right, so today we're here with Latrenda Knighton.
Speaker 2:She's the current NCTM president and we're here to chat with her and find out some things she has to say, maybe about NCTM and professionalism, but we're really happy to have her on the podcast today, so welcome LaTrenda, yeah welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I feel really honored to be here, so thank you Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, Joel, you go first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what's it been like in this role for you, for NCTM?
Speaker 3:You know it's funny because it wasn't having served on the board. People think you know what this role is. You still don't really understand the presidency until you're actually sitting in that seat or whatever, but, um, you know, I have to say it's. This is a fun way to start my retirement by being a CTO president.
Speaker 3:I have to actually say that I am one of those people who I started as an affiliate leader and member just very early in my teaching career. So it's almost like the ultimate for someone who's always been like a member of the organizations or whatever, just to be able to, I guess, be president of the kind of the umbrella organization for all of those organizations and just going out and visiting with our members in the different affiliates has that's like one of the things that really just fills my plate is being able to see so many members in so many different settings and just find out that what concerned me and my school district are the same concerns they have, you know, the same things that keep them up at night, the same things that keep them excited and just enjoying the joy and the love that people have for teaching math to kids. That's that has been one of the, I guess the most fun part of this job. To be completely honest, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm imagining you, like you know, throughout the years you've been at NCTM, sitting back there and going, wow, if I were president, I would do this or that or the other thing. And I'm wondering. I'm wondering now that you are, do you like? What are some of your?
Speaker 3:goals or initiatives, like things that you're really like. Oh, I really hope I'm able recruited. But I guess when I found out what NCTM was early in my teaching career, just what we believed in then and what we believe in now has always been things that I felt strong, have always been things I felt strongly about.
Speaker 3:I actually didn't have like this long list of things or whatever, but there are some things that I'm passionate about, and so I'm very, very lucky in that. Some of those things that I am passionate about were things that we were the importance of the role that a highly qualified teacher plays in just are having the best experience possible, you know, in the classroom. So one of the things that I am passionate about is making sure that we provide as many opportunities as possible for our math teachers to have ongoing professional learning, and, yes, that means coming to conferences and things like that. But it's not just that, it's the quality of the resources that we provide to our teachers. So having the journals, having webinars and really having a wide variety of offerings, because everyone can't come to our conference, Everyone doesn't feel comfortable being in large groups, and so I've seen us add additional things. We added a podcast. I can't take credit for that, it wasn't my idea, but I get to be a host of the podcast and contribute sometimes to the choice of topics and things like that, and so that is helpful.
Speaker 3:Diversifying the type of webinars that we offer, you know, for teachers, thinking about what were those hot topics that my teachers, when I was a math supervisor, were always asking for, and so really centering that teacher voice and providing those very concrete and tangible resources, ideas for teachers to keep them focused on just high quality math instruction, and so one of the things that is one of the it's one of the most difficult parts of being president is writing a president's message every month, because every month you get to write that message. But one of the things that I have worked really hard to do is to think about teachers and that teacher voice and what would I want to communicate to teachers that they could take as a tangible thing to think. I'm going to focus on this for this month and this is what I want to look at. So that's one thing that I would say. If you think of like one of the things you want to do is, I want to make sure that my voice, that I communicate as president, is something that actually illustrates how important I believe the role of the teacher is in the classroom and how much influence we have on what happens in education. And a lot of times you may not feel that way as a classroom teacher, but just know that you know you can build that community and you have that voice just to say this is what I need. This is what I want for my students. This is what I want for the families who support the students. I support work to continue and to add the little touch you know to some of those things. You know some of those things that are characteristic of me and those types of things.
Speaker 3:One of the other things that we have been working on and there are some. I think there's some additional pieces to come in the next year or so, so I'm excited about this is making sure that we shine a light on what happens in those early grades. You know, a lot of times if you're in a large school district, people think about just the testing grade because, of course, you know, unfortunately people look at the testing grades to determine how they characterize the score. School gets a letter grade or something like that in your state accountability system, but we all know that students don't come to usually third grade. It's the first grade there's students participating in statewide testing. I just found out for someone last week that some states wait until fifth grade to start. So it's like, oh OK, that's going to be a little bit scary sometimes. I just found out for someone last week that some states wait until fifth grade to start. So it's like, oh OK, that's going to be a little bit scary sometimes.
Speaker 3:But we know that children start learning from the time they're born. So if they're just, you know, going through the motions and playing school in the lower grades because someone thinks, oh, it's not important, we're missing an opportunity to really provide students with a lot of rich experiences in mathematics One, two, to foster the confidence in them that they can be learners and doers of mathematics and also empower those teachers who work with those young students to realize the important role they play in really shaping just a student's beginning foundation for mathematics, you know, for all grade bands. Well, we've done some partnerships with NAEYC, the National Association for the Education of Young Children, so that we're actually highlighting webinars specifically designed for just those pre-K through teachers. So we want to make sure that everyone knows that math is just as important in those grade levels as literacy or any other content area. And so, as someone who started my teaching career teaching kindergarten, I'm really happy that we're allowed to do that. And so, you know, we're building on some work that was started by my predecessors and so, knowing that and because of my foundation in early childhood I took those things, so we're running with it and so we're continuing to build those foundations, and actually I have a couple of meetings set up in the next couple of weeks with some folks in those areas that we're trying to do some additional collaborations, with some folks in those areas that were trying to do some additional collaborations. So I really appreciate that just our leadership, our executive leadership at NCTM.
Speaker 3:One recognizes the importance of that and two has the confidence and is allowing me to pursue those additional things because we have seen some positive gains from folks who are primarily supporting those grade level teachers People support those grade levels as well as from families and caregivers and from the teachers themselves.
Speaker 3:And so I would say, just keeping that focus on the teacher, keeping that focus on what are we doing for our earliest learners and for the teachers who teach our youngest learners. Those are kind of two kind of pet things of mine that you know I've looked for some additional projects in that area. And then the third would just to continue to strengthen those relationships with our affiliate groups Because, as I said, I started that's how I even became aware of NCTM was through my local affiliate group because I had a math supervisor who felt that it was very important that you become a member of your professional organization that were active in those things, and so I learned a lot from being a part of that group. That group helped to grow me professionally just as much, if not more, than the support that I received at my school or at my district level. So, if I can you know, keep those things on the forefront and continue with all the other new things that we have been working on and focusing on. I feel good about my presidency.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Just a couple little small things there.
Speaker 1:Just a little, that's amazing little that's amazing, that's amazing I love hearing about the uh your history there. Like I, when I decided to become a high school math teacher I I found like I could have. I thought maybe I could affect students in mathematics greatly, being a high school and I think I had some influence there. But in hindsight I thought had I gone to elementary, I could have done equally or more influence in that way.
Speaker 3:So that's fun to hear your story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about as you meet with NCTM members and the communities and things like that? Are there any other themes or topics that really stand out in this like in current times?
Speaker 3:well, you know folks are dealing with it's something's changed and some things remain the same, and I say this in a good way you know, a lot of times you know. Now I feel as if I'm old enough to hear people say, oh, you know the old math and the new math. I'm like oh my goodness, I know, I hear what people were saying, and I'm saying but it's not older than you, because it's really the same, you know.
Speaker 2:And so it's like I hate to brush the bubble.
Speaker 3:But the same way we're saying we should teach right now. It's like way back when I was taught to teach. That's how we were taught to teach. It's just somewhere along the line we forgot. And I say that because one thing that we've always known is an engaged student is a more productive student, is a more confident student. We've always known this. An engaged student is a more productive student, is a more confident student. We've always known this. An engaged student in any content area.
Speaker 3:We've lost sight of that sometimes and I will hear people say well, kids today, they need. I don't know if it's really that the children are different. I do believe that, just because they have, they've been exposed to a lot of things that obviously were not even available when I was a child, or even some people who are much younger than I am. You know, we've had a lot of changes in technology and just in things that are accessible to folks. But what I will say as a result of that change, I think that our students and I think in a good way feel more empowered to articulate what they want and what they need. You know, I remember, you know as a child and maybe if I said well, I need this such and such not to do whatever. And if I felt bold enough for some reason, I hit my head or something and actually went to school and actually said that, you know. Then there was a conversation that was going to happen with my parents. You know what? Let's turn the same class today. You know? Could you make sure?
Speaker 3:you have a talk with her you know, because it's supposed to be a nice, sweet, good little southern girl and not say, well, you know, this activity doesn't make sense, you know that was not good and that was not polite, no matter how polite you said it. And I think, as long as students are being respectable to the adults in their lives because I definitely do not condone anyone not speaking to someone in a disrespectful way, but I notice that students are better able, some to articulate their needs and some are more empowered to do so, and probably because they are bombarded with so many different things, they have so many types of activities they engage in, they probably have had a chance to sample so many different things. And so I say this because we know that an engaged student is a more empowered student. But I see that we're starting to listen to that, and so now we are beginning to think okay, it's not just about the adult in the room Now. We've had times when we've said that and some people have listened to it, but I see that coming back around and I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 3:And so one of the things that you will hear us say a lot and I say us when we are, you know, talking to teachers about you know best practices and things like that. We're reminding them of the importance of student engagement and what's the difference between engagement and entertainment. You know, because we're definitely not saying you have to be. It was so funny. I was at a recent conference and there was a teacher she's an early career teacher. Well, you know how they want us to move really fast and keep the kids doing. I said, well, who is they? And she couldn't tell me who they was because there is nothing.
Speaker 3:And I said sweetie, I said your job is not to entertain your students. I said you want to engage them, meaning that they need to be actively involved and they need to be doing things that are involved, result in sense making. Because we know and the same research has been around for many, many, many years, but it keeps coming back up every time someone does a new study that if we and we know this as adults about ourselves, but it's the same for students If I can make sense of what I'm doing, if I can make connections between what I'm doing and what it looks like in the real world, there's a better chance that I will make meaning of it and I will learn. And so when you ask what are some things on our radar, is we know that for so long for some students that has not been the case. And so finally, we're kind of all getting on the same level playing field, because workforce is saying this is what we need and it's going back to those pieces and the students are telling us this is what I need to be able to do, but I didn't have the opportunity to do that. So you see us actively providing opportunities where we talk about this, talks about that explicitly, of making sure that it's relevant and that we actually are making sure our students are engaged and it's the sense-making.
Speaker 3:And so you know we've had sense-making resources and tools, you know, for a long time, even in principles and standards 2000,. You know we talked about those things. So you're talking 25 years ago and even before that that was part of it. But we're putting it, I guess, more as front and center and doing additional resources and additional professional learning to support teachers with that. How do you use the resources? You have to actually make sure that you're helping students make connections, so they're having that sense-making, so that you have that stick-to witness, because that's the piece that's not happening. Like you mentioned high school, those are the students who started first coming back and telling us and I mean as educators in the community you know this isn't working. You know this is what I needed to know, this is what I didn't get and things like that.
Speaker 3:So how do we bring those opportunities the recent publication with high school? But then when we looked at that it was like, well, you know, we need to do this for high school. We felt we owed it to our high school educators because those are the first set of students who are exiting to the real world. But you know what? We need to look at this from the entire pre-K-12 spectrum, and so we may or may not have heard. We have a new publication that will be released in 2026 at the Denver Annual and it's pre-K-12 focal points and so it's using, you know, you guys may remember curriculum focal points from the 2000s where we looked at K-8 and identified what were those focal point areas of content for each of those grade levels and those habits of mind. So now to build that coherence, we're looking at pre-K-12. So we want to be able to help our educators make connections between what happens in the early grades and as we build on the layers each year, because that's what we want our students to do, because you don't start over each time In math.
Speaker 3:You take something you have, you add another piece, you add another layer, you make sense of it and then hopefully make room for the new learning and, most importantly, it's the relevance to make sure that they're connecting it to something that makes sense in the real world, are using, you know, to come to the classroom. You know we have people say, the traditional avenue. I'm not sure if that truly exists anymore, you know, because we have so many different ways to become a teacher than there were 32 years ago when I started teaching. So making sure that we provide them with support for how do you do those pieces? How do you do those things? What's the important? Math at this grade level? How is it connecting to what you taught in first grade? How does it connect to something in second, third, fourth or fifth grade? Why is it important that you have that foundation?
Speaker 3:And one of the reasons why I would always tell the teachers I supported when a child walks into sixth grade, they don't have a stamp on their head that says I'm a sixth grader and I know all the content that comes before this and are ready to start here. You know, because sometimes they have knowledge that goes beyond that grade level, but it might be some parts of that sixth grade content wherever your state is that maybe I'm a little bit fuzzy on some of those prerequisites. So I need to know how those pieces are connected, because sometimes I, just as the student, I just need you to help me to make connections. So I need to know, as the adult who is in the classroom, what are those connecting pieces. I can't just know my piece you know.
Speaker 2:I need to know all the other pieces you know, or at least the connectors, so I can support, you know, my constituents, my students, you know, think of it that way. I think an important part of what I'm hearing and what you're saying is that engagement piece and that making sense piece, because there's a part of it that like oh well, ok, the student's going to come in sixth grade.
Speaker 2:They have these pieces that they know not so clear on other parts they do know really well or they know this other thing, that's eighth grade, whatever it is, and as the teacher, I really need and want them to engage in what I'm helping them understand, because I can't just tell them how it makes sense. To me, right, making sense is like they need to like, oh, connect it to the pieces and do the things. And with that engagement, because if I'm just telling them this is how it makes sense, then they're just back to like memorizing and trying to figure out what I'm saying, right, as the teacher, and it's such a huge part of what we're trying to do.
Speaker 3:Oh, exactly, because that's what we do in the real world when we're working, absolutely. I mean, you know, we choose jobs that we love or we're passionate about, but no one knows everything they need to know for whatever profession they choose, especially not in the first years. But if I have a strong foundation, I can build on it. Or I can say okay, I understand how to do A, b, c, d and E. They're asking me to do this. Let me see how I can make sense of this so that I can connect the pieces. And that's what we want. We want them to have things that they can use to build on, just so that they are complete, whole individuals mathematically, because there is a lot of math in the world and they need to be able to utilize it.
Speaker 2:And to have that confidence and willingness to take those risks, to say I don't know, how to do that right, and ask somebody too, because the expectation is not that they're just going to figure it all out or anybody right, it's going to figure it all out themselves. We need to be able to have that conversation and those pieces, and so it's creating that kind of a space as well. So it's so many things. I want to shift our line just a little bit. So in a few weeks here you're going to be coming down to San Diego to speak with our teachers at the Academy of Best Practices. Joel will be there and I think the topic that you've been given, letrendonighton.
Speaker 2:So tune in, actually, not in two weeks, but next week. We're going to bump a week and get you to part two of LeTrendonighton's conversation next week. You won't have to wait quite so long and until then, enjoy. So that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius H and can be found on pixabaycom. So thank you very much, julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1:It'll be July 22nd, pi Approximation Day, so not food or anything like that Actually the number pi or the ratio, and we'll talk about not the actual day of Pi, but that approximation day where the Babylonians had come up with an approximation of the number that we know of as Pi today, and so we'll go through some past stories that we've shared in the classroom and how we've related to that in a fun way. So we look forward to seeing you again on July 22nd for Pi Approximation Day. See you then, thank you.