More Math for More People
CPM Educational Program is a non-profit publisher of math textbooks for grades 6-12. As part of its mission, CPM provides a multitude of professional learning opportunities for math educators. The More Math for More People podcast is part of that outreach and mission. Published biweekly, the hosts, Joel Miller and Misty Nikula, discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. They also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do. We hope that you find the podcast informative, engaging and fun. Intro music credit: JuliusH from pixabay.com.
More Math for More People
Episode 5.4: Fairies and Third Edition of Core Connections MS!
Mathematics education never stands still. After a decade of classroom implementation, research advances, and teacher feedback, CPM Educational Program has reimagined their middle school curriculum for today's learning environments.
In this enlightening conversation with Tony Jones (Managing Editor) and Karen Wootton (Director of Curriculum Assessment), we explore how the third edition of CPM's Core Connections middle school courses brings cutting-edge teaching practices directly into mathematics classrooms. This isn't merely an update – it's a thoughtful integration of proven strategies that transform how students engage with mathematical concepts.
The new edition incorporates Building Thinking Classrooms principles through vertical non-permanent surfaces where students work collaboratively while standing, making their mathematical thinking visible to everyone. Daily randomized teams ensure students experience diverse perspectives, while streamlined one-day lesson structures maintain coherent mathematical storylines despite changing group dynamics.
Teachers will appreciate the addition of structured "door questions" to immediately engage students, brief "launches" that activate mathematical thinking, and reflection journals that deepen student understanding. Meanwhile, beloved problem contexts like the "jumping frogs of Calaveras County" and "algebra walk" remain intact, preserving what has made CPM distinctive while updating content to ensure all students see themselves reflected in the curriculum.
Beyond pedagogical enhancements, the team carefully analyzed and adjusted content alignment with current standards frameworks, rebalanced major and supporting work clusters, and completely refreshed the physical design with new illustrations, fonts, and spiral-bound teacher materials for improved usability.
Discover how this curriculum evolution honors what works while embracing what's next in mathematics education. Whether you're a current CPM teacher or simply curious about how curriculum can respond to research advances, this conversation offers valuable insights into thoughtful educational design.
Ready to explore how the third edition might transform your mathematics classroom? Visit support.cpm.org or check out the materials at CPM's booth at an upcoming mathematics conference.
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Speaker 2:Here we are. It's the 24th of June.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:How are?
Speaker 3:you doing today, joel? What's the national day today? Well, I'm doing okay, I'm doing okay, Okay.
Speaker 1:What's the national day? Today is International Fairy Day.
Speaker 2:International Fairy Day. Yeah, wow, yes, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yep, it is.
Speaker 2:What do you know about?
Speaker 1:fairies.
Speaker 2:I don't. I feel like I don't know as much as I should. I don't know why I should came in there, but I feel like I could know more, a lot about my fairies. Like I know there's a lot of different kinds of fairies. Like I think that when a lot of people think of fairies, they think of like Tinkerbell and like little girls tea parties.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, like the fae are, there's some nastiness. I was going to say there's some nastiness.
Speaker 1:I was going to say there's some nasty fairies as well, yeah there's for sure.
Speaker 2:Some you know, like imps and brownies and leprechauns, whatever. They're all part of the fairy kin yeah. And they're not so great. Do you think fairies are real? That's a hard question to answer, do I would say? I'm going to say yes, ish.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I think that there are many. I think there are. This is really really putting out here on this more math for people podcast, but. I think there are many things that we do not completely understand, and fairies are one way of explaining things that are not explained easily in other ways, and I think there are a lot of energies and things in the world that can contribute to that idea. That's a really really like very vague way of answering the question.
Speaker 1:Well, my sources say if you believe in fairies, they're real.
Speaker 2:And if you don't, they're not. That also follows. I don't know that that also follows exactly. I think that things could be real, if you don't believe in them.
Speaker 1:I think so. Samantha, for a long time growing up, had a belief in fairies, so every night in bedtime I would tell a tale of Tillamook the fiddery, and Tillamook would leave notes under the pillow. So there's a lot of excitement about fairies and what they're doing in the stories and things like that. And then it got a lot for me to write a note every night hello, yeah, that is.
Speaker 1:That's hard to sustain it went for a long time and so tillamook had left a note saying I need to take a break. I'll get back to you when I can, and because samantha would answer the notes and things like that. And then it all came crashing down when we went to the grocery store when Samantha was older and Tillamook is the brand of cheese that we would yes, I was going to say Tillamook.
Speaker 3:you couldn't get away with that in Oregon Because I was like, where did you come up with?
Speaker 1:this name of.
Speaker 2:Tillamook.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then we had a discussion and we both believe that fairies are still real. Okay, there is a belief that the first ever laugh of a baby opened the void from where the fairies and demons come to the land of the humans. Do you know the date of the first baby laugh?
Speaker 2:I was like this happened one time. First baby laugh, the first baby laugh. I was like this happened one time first baby laugh, the first, the first baby laugh first baby is. It is on the timeline, it's on the whole time of all time, oh, okay this. We're gonna get a lot of flow back from this whole pod episode. I can see first ever baby laugh. Huh, I'm gonna say it was a long, long time ago. I'm amazed it's within recorded history actually.
Speaker 1:It says prehistoric times. Oh wow, that's pretty vague, pretty vague, very vague, very vague indeed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, well, good, good, good.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness gracious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think fairies are interesting. I like the idea of fairies being more than just little whimsical sprites that are all glowy and happy. I'm totally fine with Tinkerbell, but I think Tinkerbell also had a mean streak.
Speaker 3:She didn't like Wendy she was kind of you know.
Speaker 1:Jealous.
Speaker 2:Wenchy yeah, totally Jealous, yeah. So I think that I like that idea Fairy folk. I think that I like that idea, mm-hmm, fairy folk. I think that there is definitely some interesting things.
Speaker 1:I remember one time going on a hike it was along Lake Superior in Minnesota, near two harbors, and this hiking trail the community had built just voluntarily, randomly. I assume it's the community. It could have been the actual fairies that built these fairy houses along the trail and it was very fun to see the neighborhood of that fairy land.
Speaker 2:I liked it. Yeah, building little fairy houses is definitely something I know. I know several people who do those kinds of things. It's fun. It's cute I know, I know several people who do those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:It's fun, it's cute, it is cute.
Speaker 2:What are you going to do to celebrate International Fairy Day, Joel?
Speaker 1:Maybe read some stories, oh, maybe do some drawings.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 1:Maybe even research, because I see here some facts about Fairy Day. They're talking about that nymphs are not fairies, but that gets me interested in what is a nymph and maybe I'll do some different mythologies perhaps but there's some similarities but they're not the same. That's all it says. So I need to do some investigating.
Speaker 2:I think of nymphs as like inhabiting, like being the spirits within there's, like different kinds of nymphs that are in like mountains or trees or like the dryads and the nereads and the oreads, and that's the Greek pantheon. So I don't know, there have been very many fairies in Greek pantheon yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know, maybe I don't know how. About you? How are you going to celebrate?
Speaker 2:I think, learning some more about all this. You know how we've categorized and organized fairies that we know about. You know how we've categorized and organized fairies that we know about? It sounds interesting. Yeah, I also. I know someone who has a fairy oracle card deck, which is very interesting and not something you mess around with yeah, Because fairies you know Serious business Fairies. Yeah, Fairies are serious business. But yeah, maybe doing something with that that would be good, so it's fun, all right. Well, it's International Fairy Day.
Speaker 1:Enjoy, go and celebrate so Joel do you know that CPM has some new curriculum. New curriculum you mean Inspiring Connections.
Speaker 2:No, no. Well, we have Inspiring Connections, but we have more new curriculum oh, some new ones. Yeah, even newer than that. We have a third edition of our middle school core connections courses, and so we brought two people who we think hopefully know a lot about this here to the podcast today to talk to us about it. So we have Tony Jones, who is the managing editor for these courses, and then Karen Wooten, who's the director of curriculum assessment, to come and talk to us about this third edition. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4:Thank you, nice to be here. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So, as we were just saying, we did a lot of prep. We have questions ready. That's a lie.
Speaker 3:The first two, I mean the only question I say like well, so tell us about third edition.
Speaker 2:What would we need to know, like what would be the things to know for someone? Maybe we we need to know, like what would be the things to know for someone. Maybe maybe we start with why did we?
Speaker 3:do a third edition any of?
Speaker 4:those questions. I think there are a couple reasons and karen can help me out on this. But our we first printed second edition in 2011. We've had subsequent copyright and updates and expanded since then, but with new learning, new understanding, new research in our own department and just in the education world in general, we saw a need to upgrade and add some things in to help students and teachers learn better. So the third edition brings the latest research and educational practices to bear as we improve an already great curriculum. So it's not like there was something wrong with second edition, but the third edition just kind of takes it to the next level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in particular and Tony will probably get to this but we've learned a lot through building thinking classrooms and having students engaged at the whiteboards or just doing having the teacher present instructions verbally rather than just always relying on things in writing, and different ways we can encourage teachers to engage their students to engage their students and we added routines for reasoning, some translanguaging things that help students communicate better and collaborate better.
Speaker 4:We've included a lot of things from our teacher research core, our TRC groups. We've looked at what they've done in classrooms, so it's action research that has been shown to work with CPM curriculum but also, like Karen was saying, with Lilijal, with Kelomaniak and Grace and others, we really saw a need to add and incorporate more things. And, speaking of building thinking classrooms with vertical, non-permanent services and the ability to actually just get up and move around and do work, your learning becomes visible, all the knowledge in the room becomes visible, so you really don't have to have an eye spy or an ambassador or you can look around the room use the resources that are there and it really does transform because now you're not only collaborating in your team, you're collaborating with other teams, because you can see the work they're doing and you can gather ideas.
Speaker 4:We used to call Huddle and share some of that information. Now you don't have to call Huddle, look around, see what others are doing.
Speaker 3:We still call Huddle Well we do.
Speaker 2:We still do a Huddle. Yeah, for different reasons.
Speaker 4:We can do, ambassador. We can do, but some of that is more built in that it's more organic than it happens, rather than the teacher directing it, telling students to do it, because they're up and their work is visible and the non-terminate surface part allows them, in that growth mindset, to take risks and to do something that's not necessarily correct, and then they can erase it and keep going, and go again.
Speaker 4:And so I think the non-terminate part with the markers and the erasers and the whiteboards, or I guess I should just say vertical non-terminate surfaces, you can easily attempt several different things and try things and keep just kind of rough draft thinking as you go along.
Speaker 3:And to that point, one of the things that we really tried to do was get away from those problems that had parts A through G you know, the ones that seem to kind of go on forever and thought of ways to can we set this up, ways to can we set this up, and then in some cases some of those parts just naturally could fall into the teacher notes as support if you need it, become pocket questions in a sense. But let's try to get to the heart of this stuff and let the students get there in their own way, rather than do this now, do this, now do this. We tried to open it up and allow for the students to take whatever approach they want with the guide that's still there for the teacher.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like not so much of like rewriting problems or updating problems, but rather using current practices or helping teacher use best practices.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 4:I would agree with that, and a lot of that is embedded within the way we wrote. The teacher notes, the way the lesson flows, and one of the building thinking classrooms that I originally was like I'm not so sure about is daily randomizing of tea. It's visibly random so that students know it's random and they get in a different team, and so we tried to take two day. There were a lot of two-day lessons and we wanted them to be one day lessons, because if you're going to randomize your team and change them the next day, then there's a whole different set of conversations that have to happen to catch kids up, who they were taught, having different discussions in different groups. And so we did that, which allowed us then, as Karen said, to shorten some of the lessons.
Speaker 4:I know when I taught second edition, sometimes it was a rush to get through a lesson and a lot of times closure got left off or something else. And to that point we've added some other new elements, like a door question to connect and make that connection. Every time it's right there and so teachers don't have to look for it, don't have to think about it, it's part of the lesson at a glance. When teachers first prepare their lesson, they can stand at the door. Here's the question. For that day. We've added a specific closure with specific activities to be more really kind of consolidating learning. We took learning logs and we made them reflection journals, where it's a little bit deeper than just what did you do today, write it down. It's more of a reflection of what did I learn, what did I understand, what did I not understand. What do I need to write down to remind my future self when I forget later, like? So I think some of those things have really strengthened, like I said, an already great curriculum by making it even better.
Speaker 2:So all of those things a teacher could take second edition and could pull in and add in building thinking, classrooms could do these pieces, could do the door questions, could all those pieces they could do. But having it actually integrated into the lesson and more explicit and like drawing out those opportunities for those things, just makes it easier, right. I feel it's like just what we did back when we integrated state team and teaching strategies and team roles and all those things at the beginning to help teachers do collaborative learning. Because you could do collaborative learning, but it was hard, right. You could do a mixed-based practice, but it's hard unless it's in the course. So here we're just putting another layer of that into the curriculum.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 4:And I don't know if you want to get there, if you have questions about it. But we also looked at like ed reports. Cc1 and CC2 didn't pass the second gateway in CC1 and CC2. Third gateway would have been a slam dunk but that second gateway stopped us. So we weren't officially approved or didn't meet the requirement by ed reports. Part of that was we had non-grade level material. I love the mascot problem in CC1. Love it.
Speaker 4:Scale factor is a seventh grade standard so we needed to move that to CC2 from CC1. There were some things, there were equations in CC2 that had variables on both sides of the equation. That's clearly an eighth grade standard. So we moved those out. So we had to do some shuffling like moving lessons between courses to hit the grade level standard and then we had to then either fill in or edit some other lessons to make sure we hit all the standards correctly. And then we also made sure that Ed Reports has a percentage of major work and non-major work, what they call supporting clusters or additional clusters, and so we did not quite hit those percentages that Ed Reports wanted in second edition. We did in third edition. So we were very attentive to those details as well.
Speaker 2:And some of those things, just as a historical note. Like those pieces didn't exist Exactly, Exactly All the standards were equal. There was no major, you know supporting clusters. So, like some of those things didn't exist, we didn't have. We've had that opportunity at this point right I love that's awesome right, it's awesome.
Speaker 4:And I mean on a personal, I don't want to get too deep into it, but it frustrates me to say like in sixth and seventh grade, stats and probability are not major work at all. Yeah, but in in CC2, we did a lot of our fraction, decimal percent work with probability, because it's so engaging to students.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 4:And it works. But if you listed a stats and probability now our percentage is off. So we tweaked those lessons so that we could also include some of those other standards that are considered major work and the percentages worked out. So we did an audit to make sure of what those percentages were.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so much interesting stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about that history now. I don't know if I knew about all that history stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we were written and then Ed Reports came out.
Speaker 4:Okay, and then we wrote this, and now Ed Reports has a new rubric.
Speaker 3:Of course we're hoping we hit it.
Speaker 1:So fourth edition comes out. No, I'm kidding. So fourth edition comes out.
Speaker 4:No, I'm kidding the most interesting piece of this because it's so true and I want to give a shout out to Leslie Dietiker but the storyline, the idea of storyline, and when you start looking at adding lessons, moving lessons, changing lessons, you can mess up the whole show. So we were very careful and very attentive to not lose that. So when somebody looks at third edition, there's still a plethora, a deep intentionality to what we put together. Yeah, that honors the three pillars, that honors the historical pieces from making connections.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but it started with Foundations for Algebra Foundations Right.
Speaker 1:Foundations for.
Speaker 2:Algebra, year one and two.
Speaker 4:We pulled that into making connections, which was two years and lasted all of a year, and then moved that into the three courses For core connections Right and lasted all of a year and then moved that into the three courses For core connections Right.
Speaker 2:And we tried through all those, I mean the idea of storyline really came in with making connections.
Speaker 3:That's where Leslie entered, yeah, and something about in terms of the storyline that you know. I hope teachers realize this and think about this, Because you might think, oh, I could sit down and write a lesson about some topics, a scale factor I could sit down and write a lesson and it'll be engaging. And I can sit down and write a lesson about probability, and it'll be engaging. But to really make a whole course coherent and to build on students making connections themselves and seeing how things go, you have to be very intentional and so just, oh, I'll write this lesson and plop it in here. I mean, I know there are some publishing companies that if they don't meet some standards, they'll just say, oh, we'll write it in and drop it in here, and okay. But we really try to think about making sure everything stays connected and that it still flows. And it's not always easy. I think we've done a great job, but yeah, it's not always easy.
Speaker 4:Well, and another shout out to Judy Kish. Dr Kish, she said to me when we were in at the National Conference in San Diego. She said when they first started the project they brought 30 teachers together and she said what we realized very quickly was they knew how to write lessons, to tell teachers what to teach, but it was a skill to develop, how to write lessons that really engage students. And that just hit me because, like we are really working really hard, even though the lessons most of those lessons stayed the same, we still wanted to edit, revise, tweak them enough that really would engage students. And we did a lot more question, asking questions and create a graph, create a table, write an equation, do this we? We ask more questions. That would get students to think deeper about something rather than just following the instructions that are there. I'm creating a graph because it says create a graph Instead of would you create a graph? That would help you? That's a different question. It makes them think differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, sort of the directive versus the thoughtful.
Speaker 4:And kind of getting back to what you said, joel, earlier. But I want to make sure, like the jumping frogs at calaveras county, the trail mix from tile for toothpicks and tiles or thesel, the acrobat, watch my number, like those kind of things, newton's reverence, the algebra walk on the silent board game, things like that, we kept those because those are those problems that are memorable, problems that that for years have really engaged students, work with students, and so we didn't throw those out at all and I want to make sure, like that, the favorites. So a teacher transitions from second to third edition. Oh, I love this, it's my favorite. Well, it's there.
Speaker 2:And if they don't think it's their life, the mascot problem, it is just maybe not in the course you're teaching now, because we needed to move it for the standards and and, and you and I had some conversation about this also, tony, like some of you, also took advantage of the time. The the sort of the opportunity, let's say, to change some contexts or change some problems, like moving them is one thing, but like actually to rewrite it, as Karen was saying, maybe not as many parts, or to change the context when that opportunity presented itself.
Speaker 4:Yes, it's similar to what we did in IC.
Speaker 4:That and I fall back on Pam Sater, the book Choosing to See, and we always have her Academy of Best Practices and one of the things that she says which I thought was I always knew like the mirror students can see themselves in that context, the window they can see into another context, another culture, another, you know. But she said the third one is a sliding glass door where you can open it and enter into that other context, that other world. And I just we tried to do that and I think that's really important that students see themselves, see other people and can even then enter into that context, so they become a part. And you can't do that perfectly because we're a national Christian, we're not writing which we don't know necessarily. I mean, demographics in different parts of the country and different cities and different districts change. But we tried to do enough of that so that every student could see themselves in it and become a part of that story, that content, that those problems are working story that content that those problems are working Right.
Speaker 1:Right. What do you guys think about? So you brought up the fact that second edition you kept a lot of those great problems. But if I was a teacher currently teaching second edition and wanted to adopt this third edition, would that, do you think, feel like it would be a smooth transition? What are some of the things you might say about that?
Speaker 3:I'd say yes, If you embrace CPM philosophy, methodology and you're familiar with it, yes, it'll be a smooth transition. It looks different. We wanted it to look different. So all new illustrations, new font, new layout. We just wanted it to look different too. And there is one piece I don't think we've mentioned yet, which is a launch. I know Tony mentioned the door questions, but every lesson also has a launch and that's new.
Speaker 3:That's something where you know there's. We start the lesson off to spark thinking, to spark curiosity in some way, when we can. It's from the lesson, it's related to the lesson, but sometimes it's just like a, which one is unique, or a, a math chat number, talk sort of thing, to get kids started thinking as we go into the lesson. So that is different. So if you're not used to doing something like that, this will be something new to you. But generally I would say it'd be a smooth transition.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that is similar to what I see is where we had the launch and we have what we call data chats. We have several different types of launches. One's a data chat to get some of that data in there. Since Ed Report says that isn't that important, we wanted that and what I want teachers to know is it's meant to be an opener Like it's not meant to be a complete lesson. So after, if the launch has four minutes, five minutes, that's it, like great discussions. But now we're moving on. We can come back to that maybe later. Several teachers when we first introduced it, they were taking 10, 15 minutes because they were great discussions happening, but then you're losing the core part of the lesson and so, but I yeah the launch, I love the launch and that was go ahead.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, no, go ahead. Finish what you're saying.
Speaker 4:Well, when I did TRC two years in a row I did number talk, math chats and I watched just basic skills with the four operations even fractions, decimals, negative numbers. I saw the increase in their skill by doing those as launches. That helped them find ways mentally to work with the numbers and decompose and recompose numbers and the flexibility with numbers that really does grow your number sense. It was amazing to watch what happened and so we've added a lot of that Again. That's where that research that we did is informing Right Nice.
Speaker 2:And it's on a different platform, right Like? It's not in the old e-books platform, it's in our other platform. It's a different platform, right Like? It's not in the old e-books platform, it's in our other platform.
Speaker 4:It's a digital platform, so the third edition online will look much different than the old e-book. And the pre-edition doesn't look that much different, but it's very much. It's cleaned up. It's just crisper nicer it looks. Not that the other one wasn't professional, this looks even more so, I think to say and when we, when we had it out at the national conference and people were looking at it, they raved about just how clean yeah, clean. How nice and simple and easy it is to yeah navigate it totally, totally well I can.
Speaker 1:I can say I can say from I was kidding at the beginning, I knew, I knew third edition existed, but I I've done some work with it already and I can attest to that I think it does look cleaner. It's different's different and as we move forward currently it's only sixth, seventh and eighth grade. Is that correct? Correct, that is correct, and it will be coming in high school sometime soon, usually. And how would I think I know the answer too, but You're going to answer your own question I know.
Speaker 1:So if somebody was interested in learning about 3rd Edition, we have some information out there on our website, things like that. Do you have any suggestions for somebody who might be looking for some information on 3rd Edition?
Speaker 3:Besides contact Tony no we don't want to. Contact.
Speaker 2:Tony Okay.
Speaker 4:The email no, not Tony, not Tony.
Speaker 3:And I'm not supposed to say just contact your RPLC anymore, no Right.
Speaker 2:I think mostly they go to supportcpmorg and start there Right. There's a place there where they can get more information about.
Speaker 3:And certainly the books will be at our booths at our conferences. So if you're attending any math conference that has an exhibition center, sure you go by the cpm booth and take a look and you could hold it in your hand and see what it feels like and and all um. The teacher editions now are not binders but spiral bound volumes and yeah, which lay flat, which is really nice with the hard back so you could write on it like a clipboard and all yeah.
Speaker 4:And that is true. I didn't say this earlier, but it was primarily a print edition with a digital component, as opposed to IC, which is a digital, primarily digital, with a consumable component.
Speaker 3:And so those who still I'm old school, I love the book. I do too. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a good distinction to make, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about our middle school. So far it's Core Connections 3rd Edition and we'll leave some things in the show description. So if people want to get some more information, there'll be some ways to contact and get more information there.
Speaker 3:Super, that'd be great, thank you.
Speaker 1:All right. Thanks for joining. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you All right.
Speaker 2:So that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius H and can be found on pixabaycom. So thank you very much, julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1:It'll be July 15th, national Pet Fire Safety Day, so we'll talk about what it means to be aware if you have a fire at your home and how to take care of your pets. It's an awareness day, so we will have some actionable items that you can take to make sure that your pets are safe during a fire. We'll share some links in the description and talk about our own pets and how we would act on that if there were an emergency. So we look forward to seeing you again on July 15th. See you then, thank you.