More Math for More People
CPM Educational Program is a non-profit publisher of math textbooks for grades 6-12. As part of its mission, CPM provides a multitude of professional learning opportunities for math educators. The More Math for More People podcast is part of that outreach and mission. Published biweekly, the hosts, Joel Miller and Misty Nikula, discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. They also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do. We hope that you find the podcast informative, engaging and fun. Intro music credit: JuliusH from pixabay.com.
More Math for More People
Episode 4.25: National Zipper Day and some Nick Love!
What happens when someone who doesn't identify as a "math person" joins a mathematics education organization? In our milestone 101st episode, Nick Love, CPM's Director of Strategic Communications, shares candid insights about navigating this territory that reveal powerful lessons about creating inclusive learning environments.
After spending years in school communications without being a classroom teacher, Nick found himself surrounded by mathematics education experts—an experience he describes as both inspiring and occasionally intimidating. "It's a little bit like hanging out with giants sometimes," he admits. His stories highlight what happens when we create spaces where everyone feels welcome to engage with mathematics, regardless of their background or comfort level.
Nick recounts a pivotal professional learning experience where a skilled facilitator simply asked, "What do you need to be successful in this session?" This question transformed his participation from anxiety to meaningful engagement. Rather than being tokenized, he was genuinely included in ways that honored his perspective while stretching his mathematical thinking appropriately. The experience shifted from "I don't belong here" to "I'm in with this group"—a transformation that mirrors what we hope all learners experience in mathematics classrooms.
We also explore what Nick calls "the art of the nudge"—a communication approach recognizing that when people don't respond to requests, it's usually because they're overwhelmed with competing priorities rather than disinterest. This gentle persistence creates connection rather than frustration, a valuable perspective for educators working with busy students and colleagues alike.
As we launch into our fifth season of the podcast, this conversation reminds us why our mission matters: creating conditions where everyone can engage meaningfully with mathematics expands possibilities for learning and belonging. Subscribe now to join us for more conversations about mathematics education that make a difference.
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You are listening to the More Math for More People podcast. An outreach of CPM educational program Boom. An outreach of CPM Educational Program.
Speaker 2:Boom, 29th of April. Yep Wow, spring is in the air. Spring, it's delightful and warm.
Speaker 1:It's almost May. It's our third episode of April.
Speaker 2:Whoa, three episodes. There's three Tuesdays in April yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean every month has there's five every month has two or three.
Speaker 2:Well, there's five. Yeah, there's five, and we happen to be on the first, third and fifth that's right, because we could have been on the second and fourth, and then there would not be Three podcasts in that same month. Okay, anyway, what's the national day today? We?
Speaker 1:are not celebrating multiple Tuesday month.
Speaker 2:We are celebrating National Zipper Day. National Zipper Day, yeah Zipper.
Speaker 1:Day.
Speaker 2:Zipper Day are cool.
Speaker 1:They're way cool.
Speaker 2:I mean how zippers work is pretty fascinating actually I think so too. Because if they're the metal zippers right and they've got the little teeth and the teeth have to be like, I'm going to do this with my hands, even though people can't see it.
Speaker 2:They have to be kind of like bent open so that there's more space between them, and then the other one gets in there while there's space, and then they come down and they cramp together. That's pretty cool. It is pretty cool. I mean, whoever thought of this and said how can I attach these things? Well, I'm going to take this thing and then I'm going to build another thing to make them come together. Yeah, it's pretty amazing to me.
Speaker 1:I think so too.
Speaker 2:And so useful.
Speaker 1:They've been around for a while, I assume.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Well, the other one has the information how long.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm sure it says somewhere on your thing First version of the automatic continuous clothing closure called a zipper.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It has a patent. It was 1851.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, I wonder what it was made of.
Speaker 1:Well zipper material.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, some of them were made of metal, some of them are made of metal, some are made of nylon. Now, the nylon ones, they kind of are weirder, because the way that they mesh together is kind of weird yeah.
Speaker 1:One thing I appreciated about the 2025 CPM Teacher Conference is that the bags given I don't know if they're gift bags or swag bags or what you call them. They came with a zipper this year.
Speaker 2:I really appreciated that, because nothing fell out. That's great, and the zipper is functional and works well and doesn't get snagged. That's great because zippers can be a poorly functioning zipper.
Speaker 1:I have this jacket and I always forget and I put something in the pocket and I zip it up. That zipper doesn't come down very easy because it always gets caught on the fabric come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of the one of the problems is like getting caught in the fabric and then do you unzip it, do you rezip it, like sometimes it's better to go through the fabric and then come back, and sometimes it's and or the zippers that just magically unzip themselves behind the zipper closure. Yeah, Like or they're missing like one tooth, so then as soon as you zip them, they just go unzip yeah.
Speaker 1:And don't like some. Like a wetsuit, like some wetsuits have zippers, so that would have to like water out. Yeah so well, it's a dry suit if it's a wet. Oh, that's true.
Speaker 2:I said, if it's a dry suit, then they yeah, they, zip in a particular way interesting I think they they zip and then they also have a closure and a bunch of other things, but. But wetsuits just have really big teeth yeah, zippers yeah I do like a good zipper.
Speaker 1:How are you going to celebrate?
Speaker 2:well, I'll probably use some zippers today. Yeah, to celebrate well, I'll probably use some zippers today. Probably use some. I'll probably use some zippers today. I mean, it would be hard not to use zippers I think so too yeah, I didn't like I'm not gonna unzip or zip anything maybe that would be a way to celebrate somehow just to be just be aware of all the times you zip and unzip something.
Speaker 4:Hmm.
Speaker 2:What are you going to do to celebrate?
Speaker 1:I don't know I I you know it is the end of statistics and mathematics awareness month. Yes, so I may take some data. Okay, how often I zip.
Speaker 2:All right, maybe I'll even ask the team and listeners If you please join in what is the data that you want, just like frequency how many times during the day?
Speaker 1:whether you zipped or unzipped. How many times did you think about zipping? Okay?
Speaker 2:interesting.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's interesting.
Speaker 2:The average, some measurable central tendency around using zippers. Yes, yes, as we were talking about this, it made me think about one of the most really particular, like distinguishing noises I have around zippers is the zipping and unzipping of a tent.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you know that sound Like very yep. That's very clear. It's a zipping and unzipping of a tent. Oh yeah, you know that sound?
Speaker 2:Yep, that's very clear. It's a very clear sound, yeah, so All right, well enjoy. Is it national? You said yes. All right, well, enjoy National Zipper Day.
Speaker 1:Please do.
Speaker 3:Hey, my name is Tony Javits and I'm a former middle school educator who has transitioned to working full-time with CPM in the Curriculum and Assessment Department. In the Curriculum and Assessment Department, my current position is Writer-Editor and I'm currently the Managing Editor for the third edition of Core Connections, which I love. I wanted to take some time out to talk to you about the Academy of Best Practices, or ABP as we affectionately call it. I was involved as a participant back in 2018 with the Veteran Teacher Cohort and in the past few years, I've been able to help facilitate the week with the Veteran Cohort. Abp is one of the most, if not the most, impactful learning experiences I've had in my 20 years as an educator Gathering with 32 educators from across the country for a week of diving into the best and most effective ways to engage students and help students learn and achieve at high levels Just an incredible experience.
Speaker 3:So you will engage with renowned authors and speakers. You will collaborate with colleagues. You'll be challenged to think outside the box and more during this week. That's so incredibly uplifting and encouraging for educators. It made me look at my own teaching in ways I had never really previously thought about. It's a week of learning, but provides ample time to think, reflect and apply what you are learning. The takeaways are amazing and they certainly changed my outlook and my practice when I went back to my classroom. Certainly changed my outlook and my practice when I went back to my classroom. However, just as impactful is the connection that I made with so many different educators from across the country.
Speaker 3:These are educators I still keep in touch with and share things with seven years after ABP, and that includes every time zone of the continent in the United States people from California to Massachusetts and many places in between. We still regularly check in with each other, share ideas, talk about what works, what doesn't work, something new we tried and gather ideas from each other. So this year we want to accommodate 64 more educators from all walks of life and from all over the country. This includes a new teacher cohort having taught in the classroom for five years or less and a veteran teacher cohort having taught CPM for five years or more. And here's the beauty of it all it's fully funded by CPM.
Speaker 3:The cost of travel, lodging and meals is all provided with no cost to you other than your own spending money on the social events you may fill your evenings with. I know I did quite a bit of that. So this year we will be spending a week together in beautiful San Diego, california, and you can be a part of it. We want you to be a part of it. Applications are open now. So apply today and be prepared to spend a week being blown away by an incredible, rich and rewarding experience like no other. We hope to see you there.
Speaker 1:Thanks, tony. Applications for the Academy of Best Practice can be found at cpmorg backslash abp, and those applications are open until May 10th, so please go check it out All right, we have a podcast surprise today.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited we're here talking today with Nick Love, who is the Director of Strategic Communications. I have to say that very carefully, very strategically for CPM, and we invited Nick onto the podcast under the pretenses of what's it like to be a non-math person working for a math company, a more math for more people company. But then that's actually a trap. It is Because, nick, you're still a math person.
Speaker 4:I know this one. I know the answer is the.
Speaker 1:YFA.
Speaker 2:But really what we mean is a person who was not a math teacher, who was not a math administrator, did not work specifically trying to teach younger individuals mathematics before coming to CPM. Because that is the case for a lot of us Almost everybody in the PL department, the writers, et cetera we've all been educators, but you have not been officially quote, unquote an educator, right? So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me Welcome to CPM. I mean you've been here for a couple of years, but yeah, I think it's just about three years. Wow, three years already. Wow, I was going to go two.
Speaker 4:Right, it's fun, which they say. Time flies when you're having fun, right.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could go into a whole bunch of conversation about that, but we're not going to so. So we we wanted you to come on the podcast mostly because we did want to, like, get some stories, some ideas, some. You know all of us come. We have been steeped in mathematics education before we came to this company and just kind of continue doing the same thing. And and one, I don't even know what you did before you came to cpm, so maybe we could start with that and then hear a little bit about what it's been like coming to CPM.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that's a good start.
Speaker 4:So almost three years ago I was in Chicago in an independent school, so I was the communications lead and I wasn't an instructor, but I was in classrooms a lot.
Speaker 4:It was probably I. I joke that the the two best parts of that job were the, the web team that we worked with. We worked with this web vendor and they were just fantastic and I couldn't have survived without them and just being in that space with just the kiddo energy, like so the independent school was infants to eighth grade and just the curiosity, the excitement, the laughter. I mean it's hard to have a bad day when you're just in that space. So so then moved to from chicago to maryland and somewhere in the middle of all of that, transitioned over to cpm as the director of strategic communications and pulling in some of my my on the ground school experience to to add maybe not add, but I think one of the advantages I think I have in my role is that I had real experience in a school around classrooms, so I can at least pretend to speak teacher language enough to get by. I'm probably not fully fluent, but you know I can. I can order something off a menu.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think you're pretending, but was there any trepidation at all about being a math company or like just you wanted to stay in communications and education?
Speaker 4:That has definitely been my, my sweet spot, joel for sure, trepidation. I mean, it's always a little intimidating hanging out with experts. I think it's easy I know that I'm not supposed to say I'm not a math person, but it is easy to feel that sometimes, when just being in so many conversations, especially with our curriculum developers of just like the depth and the passion, and there's this, there's a level of inspiration and a level of intimidation. Just be honest, ok, you've got a depth of knowledge that I cannot even I'm going to step my toe into that, my toe into that. So I think I think there's a, there's a little bit of a, maybe a healthy self-awareness to be able to say, yeah, like I know that I'm stepping into a realm with a whole bunch of people who really, really get math, who really love it, and I am, I have, I have adjacent passions, but not the exact same. And yeah, it's a little bit like hanging out with giants sometimes.
Speaker 2:Well, you have your. I mean to be fair, though.
Speaker 4:You have your own expertise and knowledge and things that you bring that the rest of us are dabbling at or quite bad at, or don't have not spent the time honing those skills or being in that thinking space in the amount of time that you have, for sure yeah, that's, I mean, that's the great thing, and I think I even had that experience in why I was in that independent school, that just when, when it's all really working really well. You know that, like, you're all playing a role in the education of of kids, like and every, every person is contributing in their own unique way and it's not necessarily that one function is better per se. It's different, and we do all. I very much have the attitude that every person is a genius. We just haven't figured out what their genius is yet.
Speaker 4:If, if the case, and so I think that's the same situation of of all of us who are in the education space, who absolutely want to see kids thrive, students thrive, because I keep thinking that the little infants on the way up to eighth grade, up to high school, not anymore. I got one who's in middle school. He's not a kid anymore, he's a student. Yeah, we're all working towards that thriving of students and it just looks different. We're carrying a different load than someone else.
Speaker 2:So, as you think about the things that you've learned and begun when you came in as this fresh new director of strategic communication, wide-eyed and wet behind the ears maybe and now you've grown into this adolescent director of strategic communications.
Speaker 4:Oh, I like that. Okay, I'm a teen, you like that yeah, yeah, you are.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean you could choose. I mean I don't want to like.
Speaker 4:I own that, let's do it, okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Okay, but really choose. I mean, I don't want to like, I own that, let's do it okay. All right, okay, but my question, but really my, though just the like, the gist of my question is sort of like there's, I imagine, there's been some like steep learning curves at times, right around cpm, right like any company. We are lingo laden and and I'm wondering if there's something in those like, if you think back to that steep learning curve, some interesting stories or interesting experiences that you've had that you care to share.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a couple that come to mind that I Sometimes. It's those small moments that really stick with you.
Speaker 2:it's those like it's sometimes, it's those small moments that really stick you.
Speaker 4:So I've got I've got two very different but, I think, just as equally impactful stories. One one was the I think it was voluntold to support some of the sessions as a moderator, and I think I was. I was I can't remember if I was on the list or I think I may have been helping somebody out who had a schedule conflict and it was all right. I'm jumping into this, I have no idea and it ended up being a really intimate session in that like there were, I think, five or six teachers, the locator and me, and so there was no discussion sitting in the back, there was no off on the side corner being an observer, I was, I was fully in and I was completely over my head, and I think the, the facilitator, probably saw a little bit of fear in my eyes and but it was, it was there, was this great moment before we really even dove in and it was there was this like well, I don't remember how she phrased it exactly, but it was something along the lines of what do you need to be successful in this session and to be able to, to be invited into that space, one to reflect on, like what I need in this spot to be able to engage fully. One the permission to even just pause and think about it, notice, okay, let's get out of the wide eyes, let's actually like, start to think and process, can process.
Speaker 4:And then, because I had that invitation, I was able to to speak and just name, like I, I feel like I'm probably the weak link here, like, here's my situation, like you all are are pro teachers and I have got about an inch of the knowledge you have and so I want to engage. I think this is exciting and I don't know how much I can really engage. And the facilitator was just fantastic in the way that she held that space and acknowledged my ability to engage and throughout the because it was like six of us throughout the activities it was, it was like six of us throughout the activities she really made sure that there were ways that I could participate and not in a tokenizing way, but in a meaningful way. That didn't, that didn't. Uh, how do I continue that? Wide-eyed like I am, I am just overwhelmed with with this moment. Like there was definitely that, that feeling of struggle, of like, okay, like it's still like a little bit outside of my comfort zone, but I feel like I have permission to show up and belong.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that I really.
Speaker 2:Go ahead Gushal.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say that just feels like a good classroom environment, right, like for students too, to be able to feel welcome and a part of, and things like that.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to add on to that. I agree that I think that that's what we would hope our classrooms could be, and what I heard and feel like it was an important part of that is it wasn't tokenized right. It wasn't like oh okay, nick, why don't you go over here and do this thing with this group? That doesn't feel meaningful or engaged or like that. You were really contributing. I valued your contribution still and what you did have to contribute.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I felt like a valuable part of that little mini community. In that moment I went from feeling like I am a total math outsider to I felt like I'm in. I'm in with this group. I don't know what I'm doing, but I am in.
Speaker 2:Nice, yeah, nice, that sense of belonging. Nice, yeah, nice, that's a belonging.
Speaker 1:I feel like in our interactions you've always made me feel welcome and things like that, but you've brought something to CPM to make me feel connected to levels that I haven't felt connected before. Have you noticed anything in your experience?
Speaker 4:that you feel really proud of or happy about that. You're like, yeah, I brought this and I'm helping once. That's a, that's a good one. Okay, I, so this is, this is a great like like the power of teaching, the power of mentoring, because my this is going to go on way back to when I was an intern, like right after I graduated, I had this great boss and she was super intentional and making the most of our conversations. Like you know, sometimes it's like you have the intern and they're they're getting, they're getting coffee and throwing out the trash. They're not a valuable part of that community. You very much recreated I mean, it's in the past, I'm not recreated, but you know what I'm saying it was still that moment of that time of she saw me as a valuable contributor as an intern and really instilled a lot in me. So what I'm trying to get to is she taught me what she called the art of the nudge, and that is this her perspective, that she shared with me, that I now try to share with anybody who's willing to listen.
Speaker 4:Most people are just really busy and, for the most part, like you, might feel frustrated or you might feel like, oh, like I already, I already asked them for this and I already said this and I already did these things. At the end of the day, it's it's probably not malice, it's probably just there. They're really, really busy. And so she taught me that it's you're not, you're not nagging, you're not reminding, you're just, you're snudging, like hey, is it just a friendly connection? I, you know, I tried to talk to you about this last week. I'm sure you're totally busy. Can we come back to this it?
Speaker 4:I feel for me it's like totally changed one. It's empowered me to to know it. I feel for me it's like totally changed one. It's empowered me to to know it's okay to keep coming back to something like sometimes there's a hawk, they're really busy. I don't know if I want to. Half the time it's, it's, it's it's just, uh, half the time I get. Oh, I totally forgot about that, thank you, and so I. I tried to inject that in all of my conversations and I feel like I've seen more people, as I've engaged, using using that. I'll call it that, that gentle language.
Speaker 2:For sure I I am pretty sure that you have uh used. Thanks for the nudge in reply to things I've asked you for, for sure. I've heard that language For sure. Yeah, and as a person who also requests a lot of things from a lot of people and gets a lot of requests made, things fall off the radar and get left behind and then it's oh yeah, I didn't I. I that thing was overlooked and it was not. It was not because I don't like you.
Speaker 4:Right, and I hope especially in in like teacher centric or teacher heavy spaces. Teachers are just driven busy people and it comes internally from this passion and it's okay to ask two or three times and it's because there's already 30 things that they're working on, that they're thinking about, that they're planning through. And my random, to your point, misty, my random request it's low on the party. And that's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a lot of for lack of a better word noise right. There's a lot of information that we're processing all the time. Yes, and we are not going to be perfect at retaining attention on the things that we need to want to, or that all need to get done.
Speaker 1:Well, and to Misty's point earlier of the caveat that we've invited you here as a non-math person to be on a math podcast and not to just we need to equate everything to the classroom, but I'm going to right now. Isn't that our students too? There's a lot of noise for them, and so to gently nudge them to hey, did you think about this for a second? Is okay, and I think more of the fact of I'm not thinking negatively of my students or deficitely. If my students can't do something or won't do something or don't want to do something, they just need a nudge. I love that that you brought that up, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, we have time for one more story. Nick, what do you want to? What else do you want to share? Some other highlight of joining this company.
Speaker 4:I would get to pick one.
Speaker 2:Well, we are two short ones, or we'll just make it a longer podcast and people will still enjoy the stories there.
Speaker 4:you go, We'll just have a. Can we do a series of Nick's stories we can do anything we want, we run the podcast.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 4:We are the decision makers. Well, so not to go on the classroom thing.
Speaker 4:But how about this other story I'll share? We gosh, it was probably about a year ago now when we had launched Inspiring Connections. I think it had been officially launched. For about a year, inspiring Connections I think it had been officially launched for about a year we had a mini classroom time with employees internally and that was another one of those spots of all right, nick is getting put on a team with some math geniuses All right, let's see how this goes. Nick is getting put on a team with some math geniuses All right, let's see how this goes.
Speaker 4:And in a lot of ways, it was so similar to that experience at the conference session of being invited into a space. I think there was an, there was an element I really saw in the, the structure of inspiring connections itself, that that made it easy to to, to lean in as someone who maybe didn't feel as comfortable with with some of I mean, I am so, so rusty on so much of that stuff. I mean it was. It was like wow, like I know that I did this at one point in my life Goodness, I've forgotten a lot of it and so to to be able to, to come into that space and feel like, okay, I don't know all the answers, but I know how I can engage and I think along that theme. I think specifically Mark Jones, who was my review and preview buddy Nice.
Speaker 4:My review and preview. Buddy, nice Just could could do laps, could do math laps around me in a sleep but in the same way, like in, invited me into conversations, engaging with the, the, the, the, the problems, in a way that didn't feel tokenizing, that felt like okay, pulling me in to engage a little bit outside of my comfort zone, but not so far out that I was feeling totally overwhelmed or didn't know what to do. I mean clearly a pro at his craft, I mean clearly, clearly a pro at his craft. It was, it was, I was.
Speaker 4:Definitely I'll admit I was nervous going into that, that, that course at first, for all the reasons I named of, like geez, I'm going to be the, I was, I was, I'm an overachiever and so to feel like I don't think that you can compete with these, these, these, these folks. And when I got there, I didn't, I didn't have to. Nice it was, it was. We're engaging with the math in a way that's meaningful for us, in a way that was meaningful with the, the, the lesson itself, and I mean I love, I love the PL team, the facilitation was, was awesome. Not to not to attempt to throw a bunch of flattery around, but it was, we'll take it yeah.
Speaker 4:It was really cool to see, you know I I usually work with photos of our professional learning events, but to be in one and see, like in in some ways it was a little bit of that classroom energy, like the, the excitement and the passion that with the kids, like I feel like I saw that with every time we had someone facilitating it was just like setting the tone, like really really like just being that kind of anchoring presence of like you seem really excited to be here. That makes me excited to be here. Let's do this. I don't know what's going to happen, I don't know where this is going to go, but I'm in.
Speaker 1:I love that. Well, I can tell you that I had a similar experience my first time going, being trained by CPM things like that as a math educator. Judy Kish was my partner and I felt intimidated and she welcomed me the same way Mark welcomed you not necessarily an indicator of CPM, even though it is but like we are like-minded folks and you fit in our team so well and I'm really happy that you're a part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure. You've brought a lot of really great things to this company, nick. So thank you so much your your willingness to, to speak truths and to and to identify things and to help us with hard conversations that we've needed to have over the last few years. I mean there's there's been some some really great times. I've been like, oh, nick, nick is very helpful in this, in this space, in that way. So thank you for bringing those skills that we are not always so great at.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We feel like little, little tiny newbies around you know, and bringing them in and and and normalizing them some. It's that same kind of a thing of making it the way that we just interact with each other. It's been really nice, so thank you, it's been my pleasure. Thank you for coming on the podcast as the token, non-token, non-math person.
Speaker 1:Is this our.
Speaker 4:This is pretty painless. I think I would do it again.
Speaker 1:Oh, good, and is this?
Speaker 2:We try to make it easy Is this a celebration of 101st.
Speaker 2:That's right. So this is our 101st podcast. Also, the one that came out a couple weeks ago was number 100. This is 101. So, woo-hoo. Yeah, can't believe we Came out a couple weeks ago as number 100. This is 101. So, yeah, can't believe we've done 101 podcasts. Thanks for remembering that. We were going to say that and I totally forgot. I can't believe we've been doing this this long. We're about ready to start our fifth season of more math for more people. Yeah, what does?
Speaker 1:that feel Feels good. It makes me feel old. Feels good to be old. There you go. It makes me feel old Feels good to be old. There you go.
Speaker 2:It does that too. It does that too Seasoned experience. That's right yeah well, we're still learning. We're still always learning.
Speaker 4:Always, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4:My pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you, so that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius H. It can be found on pixabaycom. So thank you very much, julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1:It'll be May 13th and our first episode of Season 5 of the More Math for More People podcast. It'll be Tulip Day and we'll get to talk about the role that tulips play in our world. I love tulips because it's always the first flower to bloom in my yard in the spring, so I always know spring is here, the weather is changing, spring is my favorite season of the year, and so I look forward to talking about tulips with Misty and finding out more about tulips in our world. Again, season five starts on May 13th and we can't wait to see you there, thank you.