More Math for More People
CPM Educational Program is a non-profit publisher of math textbooks for grades 6-12. As part of its mission, CPM provides a multitude of professional learning opportunities for math educators. The More Math for More People podcast is part of that outreach and mission. Published biweekly, the hosts, Joel Miller and Misty Nikula, discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. They also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do. We hope that you find the podcast informative, engaging and fun. Intro music credit: JuliusH from pixabay.com.
More Math for More People
Episode 3.25: Where Joel and Misty discuss orchids and learn about one instructional coach's growth
It's National Orchid Day! So Joel and Misty discuss their favorite types and their valiant, and often failed, efforts to get them to rebloom...
They also have a conversation with Nicole Esterling, an instructional coach from Little Chute, WI, about her initial challenges, setbacks, and growth as a coach with her team of elementary teachers. We appreciate her willingness to discuss her mistakes to help all of us learn and grow!
If you are interested in learning more about the Foundations for Coaching learning event that will be held in Salt Lake City, UT on June 26-28, 2024, please go to the National Teacher Institute site at https://cpm.org/nti/.
If you are interested in the Site-Based Leadership Program (ongoing and virtual) - go to https://cpm.org/sbl/ or the Site-Based Leadership Academy (in person at the National Teacher Institute on June 24-26, 2024 in Salt Lake City, UT) - go to https://cpm.org/nti/ to learn more.
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Well, hello everyone. It is April 16th 2024, and this is episode 25 of season three of the More Math for More People podcast.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Hello there, I'm Joel.
Speaker 1:And I'm Misty.
Speaker 2:And you're listening to the More Math for More People podcast, an outreach of CPM educational program.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of conversations about math and math education on this podcast. We're passionate about continually improving the way math is taught and we hope that you learn something in every episode that helps you become better at what you do.
Speaker 2:And we hope that you have some fun and laugh as well. That always makes things a little more interesting.
Speaker 1:Yep, we're pretty passionate about having fun Joel.
Speaker 2:So please have a listen and we think it'll be well worth it. Boom.
Speaker 1:Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. It is fanfare for the National Day of segment. Fanfare, fanfare, fanfare, fanfare.
Speaker 2:What is it today? All right. What's the National Day?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good question. Am I supposed to know?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I've got it. I didn't get that note, I got us today.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, phew, phew.
Speaker 2:It is National Orchid Day.
Speaker 1:National Orchid Day. Yeah, oh, I love orchids, I. I like orchids too. I have frequently bought orchids at the grocery store because they're so pretty and flowering, and then I'd say their re-flowering success rate is maybe 50%. That's pretty good, I think it's okay. I wish it was more, but they flower and I like orchids because they flower for a long time.
Speaker 1:That is nice, like the flowers, will stay for a long time. And then it seems, it really seems dependent on where they are in my house and or how much I water them or some particular thing that I have not been able to figure out all the variables for them to re-flower.
Speaker 2:Well, here's what I've learned about. That is that especially in Utah, it's tough, I think, because it's so dry here, so it's humidity in the air matters, things like that, but not only. It's like a delicate balance of, like you said, the sun. So there's one place in my house, one window, where it's good because it's not direct light but it gets enough light. The water, the moisture, and then also you need to change the soil often and it needs wood in the soil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like mine. Don't seem like they have any soil in the pot, it's just chips.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:But then they're kind of like all morphed around the chips, that's a a technical word, and so like changing the chips and keeping them in the thing Like mine, kind of like grow out of the container at some point. Yeah, and so they get to that point. Then it's hard to put them back in the container. But who knows?
Speaker 2:I know Well, those are the recommendations. But who knows? I know Well, those are the recommendations. I'm looking here. It just says orchids with regular maintenance and such could live a lifetime of 100 years or more 100 years, Like you said I think I maybe have a less than 25% reblu Right and so it's tough for me with orchids. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah but they're pretty, though.
Speaker 2:Do you have a favorite type of orchids?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, but they're pretty, though. Do you have a favorite type of orchid?
Speaker 2:Mm-mm, like I couldn't even tell you the different types of it.
Speaker 1:Well there's. I think one of them is called like Anoropsis or something like that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:There's different shapes of the orchids and the flowers. I really like the ones that have, because some of them have one branch or stem and then the flowers are all along it and then some of them are many branched stems and lots of flowers kind of clumpish, and some of those ones are. The yellow ones are really pretty like that, and the white ones I'm not as big as a fan of the pinkish ones that are pretty popular. I think orchids are pretty cool generally I do too.
Speaker 2:I like the white ones too. One year I was at the CPM teacher conference.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And in previous years it's been in San Francisco and one year. What I found out, actually, is that the San Francisco Orchid Society always meets on that weekend at the CPM conference. So I'm a member of the San Francisco Orchid Society and they always have a theme around it too. So the year that I went was like Alice in Wonderland, and so everybody who presented their orchids had a booth that was decorated as Alice in Wonderland. So that was pretty cool. So that kind of started my interest in orchids anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, well, wow, well cool. When I was in Costa Rica, you could buy little orchid starts. They weren't like seeds, they were clearly like tiny little bits of a plant or something like that. And then there was all this information about where you could take them home to or not, because there's lots of regulations, of course, about bringing plants and dirt.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:In different areas because you can introduce very bad things and it's a good idea to be careful about that. So but I remember I was very excited because I wanted to bring someone home, but I I didn't end up regret that I didn't. But well, you can always go back and do it again I could, that's true, that's true but it was cool because when costa r just walking around and in the trees and things there were just like house plant orchids living in the jungle.
Speaker 2:It was pretty cool. I was like, oh my gosh, that's like the one I have at home.
Speaker 1:That's super cool, I'm like well, I guess those plants in other areas that are like being inside, outside all the time, that's right. Right, they would grow there.
Speaker 2:That makes sense it does make sense, all right. So what are?
Speaker 1:you going to do for Orchid Day?
Speaker 2:Well, three suggestions here that are given on. My resource is you could enjoy a cup of orchid tea.
Speaker 2:You could host an orchid-themed garden party, or you could just take pictures of orchids and share them. I think for my celebration. I'm going to enjoy the ones here in the home. And then there is we do have a store here in Salt Lake City that sells orchids and they have the finished area. And then they have the greenhouse area and I love to go into the greenhouse area, so maybe I'll take a trip down there and take a walk around yeah, I might.
Speaker 1:I might go uh seek out a new orchid for my house, one that's different than the other ones that I have.
Speaker 2:So that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:I might have to not go to the grocery store for it. Yes, I love it Awesome. Well, enjoy National Orchid Day.
Speaker 2:You too.
Speaker 1:Today we have a conversation with Nicole Esterling. Nicole is a teacher and coach who lives and works in Little Chute, Wisconsin. She was in the classroom for a number of years about eight of those she taught CPM, and she's been a math coach for the past five years in Little Chute, mostly working with elementary teachers. She's here today to tell us her story and her journey with coaching. She had a bit of a misstart, as many of us do, and is very vulnerable and open about her mistakes and how she's working through them and working with teachers, and so we hope you enjoy hearing her story and what she's been doing with coaching. Okay, so today we are here with Nicole Esterling. Welcome, Nicole.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:She's going to talk with us about a bit of her journey moving from a teacher into a coaching position and be a big risk taker, and tell us about some of the mistakes she made and how she's moving forward, and so we're really glad to hear her story. So welcome to the podcast, nicole.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having me. So yeah, just a little bit of a background about myself. I was a high school math teacher for about 15 years. I taught mostly geometry and some of the upper level math classes, and then at some point I was just looking for a little bit of a change and I then started in the coaching role and have been our K-12 math coach at our district for about five years.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Okay, have you been enjoying that?
Speaker 4:I've been loving it. It's really interesting to see students on the younger side also and really work with them as they're developing their identities as mathematicians and helping them along that journey, and really working with the teachers, too, to see how they can support students as they're becoming mathematicians yeah, that's cool so when you started moving into this coaching role, how did you approach it like?
Speaker 1:what was your vision for yourself as a coach? How did you move into that space?
Speaker 4:yeah. So my vision when I first started was really working with teachers on looking at some of the shifts that our middle school and high school had made based off of when we started with CPM, and really looking at the math practices and giving students more of that active role within the classroom. So my vision was let's take a good thing we have going in the secondary level and really work on that and how we can capitalize on that with students in the younger grades. So when I first started coaching, I was meeting with teachers more on the one-on-one basis, individual coaching cycles, and that was going okay. And then COVID happened and things got crazy.
Speaker 4:And then when we came back, more of the work that I did with teachers was on the team level. So I met with grade level teams and we did a lot of coaching in teams. A lot of that was, I think, just for teachers harder to commit to that the time on working with a coach and they felt like it would be more beneficial to meet with the whole grade level team. So really especially I would say last year, was when I did most of my work with our grade level teams and part of that in that work with those teams, I ended last year with just not great feelings. I done things as a coach. We had monthly meetings and agendas and things planned out, but leaving those meetings at the end of last year I really felt like I was a place where I didn't meet that vision and didn't fulfill the things where I was. Empowering teachers to empower students really was what it came down to. We had our meetings, we did our things, but it didn't end in the greatest way at the end of the year.
Speaker 2:So was it more like a feeling for you or do you have something that? Did you get feedback from teachers that let you know that?
Speaker 4:Both.
Speaker 2:So it was a feeling for me.
Speaker 4:And then there was a especially one grade level team that really at the end of the year they said to the principal we're done. Like this is too much, we're done. And I'm like, oh, that was my sign that I didn't do my job as a coach. If teachers are asking, not excited, to meet with me and work with me on things in the math classroom, I got to reevaluate and reflect on things and think how can I do better next year?
Speaker 1:as we get into the year, how can I do better next year as we get into the year? So I'm hearing in that that there were several shifts, right from the beginning of your starting in your coaching role to the end of last year, right that you had started working with individuals and then COVID, which is clearly a shift, and then working with teams. And I'm wondering can you pinpoint where in there what were the things that were happening that you think were problematic? Was it some part of that shift, or was it something else, or was it just? I don't know. What are you thinking?
Speaker 4:Well, really a lot of it came to light in this year. I ended up meeting with John Hayes, who's one of the CPM coaches, and he had just approached me. He was in our district working with our teachers and said, hey, what do you think about trying out coaching the coach? And I'm like, yes, I really would love to, because this experience this year I'm like I need to for myself figure out what's going on and how I can do better. So, going back to things that happened, I think one of the big things for me that I realized in things that I've been doing this year was really the planning and creating the agendas and all the work that I was doing that I at the time, as a coach, thought I'm doing okay, I'm planning ahead, but I was planning more so for the content. I was planning for things that needed to be done versus planning with when I think about what we've been talking about really the discretionary spaces in mind. So I wasn't thinking ahead to what might happen in some of the conversations and how can I bring all players to the table in those conversations. So that's where, really starting out this year, I really looked for some guidance in how do I plan for the teaching teams in order to orchestrate a lot of that discussion.
Speaker 4:And one thing that my coach had said to me that really, I think, shifted my view as a coach was just he said what would you do if you were a teacher planning for your class?
Speaker 4:Like, how would you think about this or approach this differently if you were a teacher and you were planning a CPM lesson? And like at that point the light bulb turned on and I'm like, well, I would do things completely different. I would think about things like the five practices, I would think about the conversations we were having ahead of time and really look at creating space for teachers to have the discussion. So, for instance, one of the things I would have done last year was pose a question, have them think about it and then almost what I would call a free-for-all discussion where everyone was just having their opinions and in that, looking back, I'm like, wow, I really a team of five people. I maybe heard voices, strong voices, from two, maybe three of the people from that team. So this year I would say when I would go in and plan for things like that same discussion question, I might work in things like a think-pair-share or I might have them do a dyad, pulling in a lot of those teaching strategies in the setting within a group of teachers.
Speaker 2:And that seemed because you were pairing them up or because you were able to just hear more discussion around the points.
Speaker 4:I think both. I was pairing them up and tried to do that in a strategic way, like we would do in a classroom, where I would pair them up with people they felt comfortable talking about and where, like, for instance, one group I was working with had two teachers that have been with our district for a while and two brand new teachers. So at the beginning of the year and even our first meeting, I was looking at it and thinking I'm not hearing from these new teachers, which I think is pretty common when you have that sort of dynamic and makeup of a team. So then when we broke off, it was like that gave the new teachers a chance to talk with each other and then I could circulate and listen to some of the conversations and then, using from the five practices, a lot of that selecting and sequencing, where I'd ask people to pull in different points from the conversation, rather than that kind of just blindly sharing things where, as a facilitator, you have no idea what's going to happen then.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it feels like that shift when you're talking about shifting it from just planning for content of the meeting versus thinking about planning a lesson. Right, there's this, there's a piece of it. That is the how am I going to help people have these conversations, think about these ideas right, and move forward in their learning and thinking. And that may not exactly go in the way that I want or think, because they're also adults and they're planning and doing things. It's not like I have a learning target in the same way, but I have some learning target that might not be specific, but is at least a general thing that I'm trying to get them to and then having those conversations, as opposed to me going, okay, we're going to do this and we're going to do this, and we're going to do this and we're going to do this, and then that's the end and everyone's going to go great, but I didn't really participate or I didn't really. It didn't come into me as a learner in that situation.
Speaker 4:Yes, exactly, I was just going to say. Another big thing. I think that made a big difference this year too, was I did the vision activity.
Speaker 2:What's the vision activity?
Speaker 4:So it was one that was listed in the site-based leaders as one of the resources, one of the things we could access from the site-based leaders content. I sat down with the teachers and we thought about what was their vision for teaching and learning math within their classroom I shouldn't say within their classroom, but grade level wise. We really tried to think of at their grade level what's their vision of teaching and learning, and then we went around and each teacher had a chance to say things that they had written down and then we compiled an overall list and looked for similarities and then related those to the practices and as we did that, it really helped them develop their goal as a teaching team. So they then pinpointed one of the math practices that they wanted to focus on for this year and I think that really gave me guidance as a coach when they focus on one of those math practices.
Speaker 4:When we reached a spot of maybe conversations leaning towards deficit thinking or just negativity, it gave a chance as a coach to work back to our vision and work back to that goal of the math practices, where I think that was a big piece that I had been missing last year and not feeling successful for the team. I was like when we got in those points where we might be starting to talk deficit language or we might've been starting to just talk about things that weren't going well and get caught up in that in that space, I felt like I didn't really have a tool to get them out of that, whereas this year I felt more empowered as a coach and I think teachers felt more empowered in their language because they had that vision and that goal to relate back to Right they they were co-created by the teachers, as opposed to you just coming in and saying here's our vision and let's keep going back to this Again.
Speaker 4:I think that's that ownership and that that they could have over those pieces that then help you. You don't necessarily say it this way, but like these are the things that you said were important, right, as opposed to just this is what is important, and I brought it to you and told you like it's really coming more organically from the things that they were wanting to do. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and that was, like I said, I feel like one of the major differences between last year and this year. And in that process, does it still always work perfectly and does it get us out of that? When we get it, you get into that mode of talking about things that are going well Not always, but it's a work in progress and I think that's the important part is knowing that it's always something that we're working towards and having that goal, overall goal, in mind.
Speaker 2:Well, I also hear in there you're valuing taking risks, and taking risks in your own work with teachers, and teachers will maybe see that and take risks in their work with students.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that was actually a big part of my goal this year. When I sat down with John Hayes at the beginning of the year, who was my coach, at first I was like I don't know if I want him to see the disaster that this has become, but I trusted him enough to say you know what, let's really tackle this and look at this and see how I can grow from this experience, which I feel like at the end we're approaching the end of the school year and a much better feeling about things that I've been able to work with teams and the progress they've made and really in the ways that they've been empowered as teachers, because I think that's one of the overall goals too as a coach is to empower teachers in their practices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah totally. So so, speaking, as we're coming toward the end of the year, where, where do you see this going next?
Speaker 4:What are some of your goals, maybe or for working with your teachers? As you finish the year, we'll reflect on things they've done this year and really how they're seeing changes in students. I think that was another big thing I hadn't mentioned too. A shift that I made in the discussions with teachers was really trying to keep things student-centered, and our conversations always went back to what they were noticing in their students and then how different things that we might try as teachers that impacted what was happening with students. So, going back to that question, I think it's just a continual process wrapping up this year and then continuing into next year of keeping things focused on the practices and keeping things focused on what's happening with the students in the classroom.
Speaker 1:Nice. Well, Nicole, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and telling us your story and this part of your journey. Your journey is not over and we appreciate that, and we appreciate you coming and sharing where you made some mistakes and how you're thinking about it, and that I hope that that's helpful for other people listening. So thank you.
Speaker 4:All right, and again, thanks for having me yeah, of course. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So we really thank Nicole for coming and sharing this part of her journey with us today. If you are interested in learning more about the CPM coaching model and techniques for coaching, you can join us at Foundations for Coaching at the National Teacher Institute in June. Registration is open now and you can find in the details for this podcast a link to the National Teacher Institute registration so you can find that and get registered for Foundations for Coaching. It's two and a half days. If you're interested in the site-based leadership program, you can also find a link for that in the podcast details, as well as a link to the site-based leadership academy which will be at the National Teacher Institute also in June. So please check out those details in the podcast and we hope to see you in Salt Lake City in June.
Speaker 5:And here we have another installment of Join them on their Journey. It's Maggie and this is where I am on my journey. I have just concluded the three lessons on generational wealth from the Inspiring Connections 3 course. In my last installment I shared that I was hesitant, I was nervous about teaching these lessons. It was, it is, still is outside of my comfort zone, but I am happy to report that the lessons went really well. I feel like I can confidently say my students all felt very heard, they felt comfortable and I'm thankful that I put in the prep and took just a couple extra moments to really make sure that I felt confident and anticipated any questions or any feelings that would arise from my students, because ultimately I really wanted them to feel safe and I wanted them to all feel valued and that their identities and their situations were part of this class and I would never want someone to feel like they are an outsider. That was my really big hesitant for this, so I'm glad I used a lot of the CPM resources that was provided through the Inspiring Connections. It gave some links to where the sources were so I was actually able to answer some questions, but there was definitely some questions that came up that I was not expecting or some connections that really led to some interesting conversations. One of the unexpected questions that I don't think I could have ever prepped for was why are one of the races white, non-hispanic, and so it brought up some interesting conversation. There was also a conversation of what happens if I don't fall into any of these categories, and so I wasn't on my radar to make sure that I clarified what the different categories are and what to do, and so there definitely was some times, but I would say that I had set out some norms about how we speak about wealth and how we speak about our own personal situations, and so there wasn't ever a time that any students, I think, overshared or brought up a topic that maybe would have made another student feel uncomfortable, which has happened in the past as I teach seventh grade and they're excited to share, but I think setting the norms at the very beginning was really helpful.
Speaker 5:Some other unexpected connections that I was not expecting but it really led to a fruitful conversation was about how, with generational wealth, they were thinking about different situations, and in my head I always thought that they would think specifically just about their own situation, but what they were able to connect was they're reading a series of vignettes in English class in the book House on Mango Street, and so it was interesting for them to bring up how the main character is in a certain situation. And then they also brought up about celebrities, and so I was actually not expecting them to really think outside of themselves. I think I always thought about it as them internalizing it, so it was nice to talk about different characters or different situations on all ends of generational wealth. I'm very conscious about making sure that my classroom is a very safe environment, and so I was very conscious of how I spoke about different topics, and so it was comforting that I kept saying, all right, let's go back to the math. I think CPM did a great job of presenting information and asking questions of how this could impact generational wealth. But then going back to okay, what is the slope or what is the point of intersection, and so it really felt, yes, we were talking about generational wealth, we were talking about housing prices, we were talking about wealth in general, but it was all surrounded around the topic of meth, and so I, although I would say I was outside of my comfort zone, it was also within my comfort zone because I was just putting the math topics that we had just learned about into generational wealth, and so it was comforting to know that. I also just slightly adapted it to make sure that my students really connected to it.
Speaker 5:By the third lesson I think that they felt very comfortable I expanded one of the lessons that was talking about housing prices to include all housing prices in, specifically, los Angeles, but also including some rents, just to make sure that the entire class felt heard and valued.
Speaker 5:There's a lot of topic about housing prices in Los Angeles in addition to rent, and so a lot of the conversation was revolving around that.
Speaker 5:And then one other thing that I think made me and maybe I was telling the students this, but what I was really doing was telling myself that this is generational wealth and that you may fall into one of these categories on these graphs, but ultimately each of us are individuals and we have our own journey and that it is important that we learn about this and that we educate ourselves financially. We educate ourselves about how to invest, about loans, about credit card interest, and so I kept bringing it back, and I would say this now, looking back, I don't know if the students even resonated why financial literacy is so important to talk about. But I was telling maybe myself that this was a really good decision, that I did push myself outside of my comfort zone because financial literacy is so important, and I encourage all of you to push yourself to take on the lessons that may be outside of your comfort zone. All right, until next time.
Speaker 3:Hello, misty and Joel Graham here, Back from spring break. With less than eight weeks left to go, I can't believe the year is coming to an end. As we do come to an end. We have end of year testing just around the corner, and it's hard not to become a little bit stressed with the pressures and anxieties that brings, and so at this point, I'm trying to focus on the positive, more important things that I see my students doing on a daily basis. I see more students being willing to collaborate and persevere with difficult problems. I see increased confidence and belief in themselves that they can solve difficult problems, and belief in themselves that they can solve difficult problems. I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on these things, but also note that these are things that are hard to measure and things that I have noticed, but the end-of-year testing does not measure these things. Of course, I will try my best to prepare my students and hope that they do their best and that they do well, but I also will try not to place too much importance on one test that doesn't communicate everything about our students.
Speaker 3:One other thing that I've mentioned before is how much I appreciate the mixed-based practice. At this point in the year, it's great to have homework problems that review concepts that we worked on early in the year and give students the opportunity to practice problems from different chapters. It's like we have a built-in review where we don't need to do as much end-of-year review before the test. I feel like my students are as prepared as they're going to be with the review and preview problems and the core problems that also at times reflect and build on prior concepts that we learned earlier in the year. I'm looking forward to the end of the year, but I'm also trying to get the most out of the curriculum that we have left and prepare my students for next year and I can't wait to use the CPM curriculum next year, having gone through it this year. Thanks for listening. Hope all is well, good luck out there and keep up the good fight.
Speaker 1:So that's all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast.
Speaker 2:For more information and to stay connected, find CPM on Twitter and Facebook. You can find our handles in the podcast description.
Speaker 1:The music for the podcast was created by Julius H and can be found on pixabaycom. Thanks, Julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, Joel?
Speaker 2:It'll be April 30th, national Bubble Tea Day, and of course bubble tea is that delightful creamy sweet tea with those tapioca pearls. And it's a relatively new holiday but celebrated on the 30th and I'm just so excited because I love this little quirky beverage. I don't know how many of you out there have bubble tea before, but I really like to have it. Some people don't like the tapioca balls, but I really do. I can remember one time back in my college days driving down the road with some bubble tea and actually getting in some bubble tea wars right, very blonde tapioca and other people and my friend of course. Then just random, they probably shouldn't even be saying this story anyway, it doesn't put me in the greatest of light, but I can't wait to talk to Misty about National Bubble Tea Day, see you.