Episode 3.26: Where Joel and Misty discuss bubble tea and co-teaching shifts with two teachers from Wisconsin

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Ever wondered about the intriguing little balls at the bottom of your bubble tea? Sip along with Joel and Misty at they toast National Bubble Tea Day. Unravel the mysteries of tapioca pearls, reminiscing on childhood memories and the sweet, chewy treats they've loved. 

Joining them are two co-teaching educators, Tom Dagit and Amanda Kadulski, who share their story about mistakes, learning, and collaboration. They discus how developing clearer communication, sharing goals, and building a relationship has helped transformed their classroom into a thriving environment for all students.

Plus another installment of Join Them on Their Journey from Maggie, Grahame, and Mike!

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Chapters

• 1:12 National Bubble Tea Day Celebration
• 7:49 Building a Co-Teaching Relationship for Success
• 28:45 Join Them on Their Journey

Transcript

[00:00:00] Misty: Well, hello everyone. It is April 30th, 2024. And this is your bonus episode. It's Episode 26 of Season Three of the More Math for More People podcast. Cheers.

[00:00:14] Joel: Hello there, I'm Joel. 

[00:00:33] Misty: And I'm Misty. 

[00:00:35] Joel: And you're listening to the More Math for More People podcast, an outreach of CPM educational program. 

[00:00:41] Misty: We have a lot of conversations about math and math education on this podcast. We're passionate about continually improving the way math is taught and we hope that you learn something in every episode that helps you become better at what you do.

[00:00:53] Joel: And we hope that you have some fun and laugh as well. That always makes things a little more interesting. 

[00:00:58] Misty: Yep, we're pretty passionate about having fun, Joel. 

[00:01:02] Joel: So please have a listen, and we think it'll be well worth it. 

[00:01:06] Misty: Boom.

Before we get started just a quick programming note and a request. This is our final episode for season three. And we would like to find out who our listeners are. So we have a link to a very quick five question listener, survey in the podcast notes. We would be so grateful if you would fill that out for us and let us know who you are. Thanks. On with the show.

All right, it is our final, final National Day for Season 3, right?

[00:01:46] Joel: Oh good, for Season Three, not the final national day, I

[00:01:48] Misty: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't worry. We will be continuing National Day of in Season 4.

[00:01:55] Joel: Thank goodness.

[00:01:57] Misty: we are also bringing, and I will say, and there will be some other new recurring segments in Season Four.

[00:02:04] Joel: I can't

[00:02:05] Misty: stay tuned, stay

[00:02:06] Joel: You're gonna enjoy them. Well, I shouldn't tell you what

[00:02:09] Misty: Of course. Well, we hope you're going to, we think you're going to enjoy

[00:02:12] Joel: I think they'll be

[00:02:13] Misty: I think it's accurate,

[00:02:14] Joel: Yeah.

[00:02:14] Misty: to say. But today is our National Day of for April 30th. And what is that Joel?

[00:02:22] Joel: It is National Bubble Tea Day.

[00:02:25] Misty: National Bubble Tea Day?

[00:02:27] Joel: Yes.

[00:02:28] Misty: Bubble is a funny word. Bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble.

[00:02:31] Joel: Have you, have you had bubble tea?

[00:02:34] Misty: I think I have had bubble tea once, once that I remember. I might have had it more than once, but I can remember one time, and I think it was the first time that I ever had it, because I did not know really what to expect.

I didn't know that you're just going to get a drink with a really huge, fat straw, and that there were going to be things in my drink. I was not quite expecting that.

[00:03:00] Joel: And it was so delicious you went back for seconds? No. Because you've only had

[00:03:03] Misty: Yeah, I can't remember if I've had bubble tea since then, so, that might not be true.

[00:03:07] Joel: Yeah. I love bubble tea. I think it's delicious. And I, and I like the little things that all, I believe they're tapioca balls.

[00:03:15] Misty: well, okay. But then the question is what the heck is tapioca balls?

[00:03:19] Joel: I

[00:03:21] Misty: Like, what is tapioca? This is the question I've had a long time and it,

[00:03:26] Joel: they're balls, right? Like tapioca pudding there.

[00:03:29] Misty: well, I know, but, but what does that mean to be tapioca?

[00:03:33] Joel: I think it's a

[00:03:33] Misty: So this says. Tapioca is starch obtained from the root of cassava, a plant that mostly grows underground, like a potato.

[00:03:42] Joel: there you go.

[00:03:43] Misty: In many parts of the world, it's a food stable.

Cassava is a native vegetable of South America and grows in tropical and subtropical regions.

[00:03:51] Joel: I like it.

[00:03:53] Misty: It's a, it's a starch. So you just, you just get the starch from the

[00:03:57] Joel: The root, the

[00:03:58] Misty: make it and roll it into balls?

[00:04:00] Joel: I guess so. And I guess it depends on size too. Cause like you said, the bubble tea, bubble tea. They're pretty substantial size. Yeah. Tapioca's. And what about frog eye salad? Is that a tapioca frog? I salad. Have you ever had frog salad

[00:04:17] Misty: I, what are you talking about? Frog Eye

[00:04:19] Joel: yeah. That's a classic frog eye salad. That's a thing.

[00:04:23] Misty: weird.

[00:04:25] Joel: And I think it's a little tapioca balls, which are like the frog's eyes.

[00:04:29] Misty: gosh. I,

[00:04:31] Joel: It's delicious.

[00:04:32] Misty: Salad Tapioca.

[00:04:34] Joel: Hey, there you go.

[00:04:36] Misty: Wait, so there's, so there's like, Frog Eye Salad. Is a type of sweet pasta salad? Dessert salad. What?

[00:04:44] Joel: It's a

[00:04:44] Misty: Made with small, round, oh, it's just a tiny word. There's, now this says it's made with pasta, whipped topping, and egg yolks. So that's different.

[00:04:52] Joel: That seems different.

[00:04:53] Misty: There's so many little suggested questions. What is the difference between frog eyes and toad eyes? That's not, I'm not even asking that. Okay.

[00:05:03] Joel: It's not, we're not celebrating frogs and toads. It's the tapioca,

[00:05:07] Misty: I mean, it's apparently a difference between frogs and toads, which again, is, you know, there's just common language. It's not really anyway, we're not going into a biological discussion of frogs and toads. Okay. Tapioca though.

[00:05:20] Joel: yeah.

[00:05:21] Misty: Did you like tapioca pudding when you were a child?

[00:05:23] Joel: Love tapioca pudding. And in fact, a friend of mine, his mom would go shopping every week. And I, I was a common visitor at their house and she would buy me my own packet of tapioca puddings. And her children would always get upset. They were the Culver's. So Mrs. Culver, she would always buy me my own pack of puddings that their own kids could not eat cause they were mine.

And so when I would come over and I'd get to eat the tapioca 

[00:05:53] Misty: Did the other children like tapioca? 

[00:05:57] Joel: Well, yeah, they wanted to have some too, but they couldn't because it was mine. I was,

[00:06:02] Misty: Interesting.

[00:06:03] Joel: it was pretty special to me.

[00:06:05] Misty: I 

[00:06:05] Joel: It's pretty good. Yeah.

[00:06:07] Misty: It's interesting that she just didn't buy just lots of tapioca so that everybody could have

[00:06:11] Joel: I think, you know, knowing Mrs. Culver, she may have been making a point to her children. I'm not sure what the lesson or the point might've been,

[00:06:19] Misty: I'm not sure what the point was, but she

[00:06:20] Joel: I didn't care because I had tapioca pudding.

[00:06:24] Misty: You were not The point was not being made to you.

[00:06:27] Joel: I was being used somehow in that point, but

[00:06:31] Misty: Did you consent to this role in the point making process? Who knows?

[00:06:35] Joel: I don't think it was brought up like direct like that, but if there's pudding and I get to have the pudding, I think that's an easy choice for me. Oh,

[00:06:48] Misty: I think I was like, I did not understand what the tapioca was and it was kind of slimy and felt weird to me. But I, and maybe also it was like homemade tapioca.

So maybe it was not as good. I don't know. Maybe it was better. Who knows? But now I, I like tapioca pudding, but I want it to be warm.

[00:07:07] Joel: Hmm.

[00:07:07] Misty: like fresh, real made tapioca pudding that's warm.

[00:07:11] Joel: I like that too.

Yeah. 

[00:07:14] Misty: it's more delicious.

[00:07:15] Joel: Cooked on 

[00:07:15] Misty: But that's not what, I mean, that's not bubble tea.

[00:07:17] Joel: That's 

[00:07:17] Misty: So what do you, do you like the bubble tea because of the tapioca or because of the flavors of the tea

[00:07:22] Joel: both I Think it's refreshing like I don't like all flavors. I don't like highly sugary things but like a chai tea flavor I definitely like and things like that and and yes the tapioca adds something to it for me

[00:07:38] Misty: all right.

[00:07:40] Joel: for sure

[00:07:42] Misty: If you want to celebrate National Bubble Tea Day, it's not, I mean, you could have to like tapioca pudding, but that would be kind of a rebellious way to do it,

[00:07:52] Joel: Yeah

[00:07:53] Misty: be a rebel or you could just go have some bubble tea

[00:07:57] Joel: could

[00:07:58] Misty: enjoy that.

[00:07:59] Joel: Absolutely.

[00:08:00] Misty: If you're going to shoot the tapiocas at any of your friends, you should gain their consent first.

[00:08:05] Joel: Yes, that is true.



[00:08:23] Misty: All right. So we're here today with Tom Dagit and Amanda Kudulski. They are teachers in Southern Door, Wisconsin, and they are in a co teaching situation. So we're here today to talk to them a little bit about how they have grown and shifted in that co teaching relationship over the last few years. So welcome to the podcast.

[00:08:46] Joel: Yeah. Thanks for joining.



[00:08:47] Misty: So tell us a little bit about your teaching situation, first of all. What do you teach? Who's who,

[00:08:54] Tom: Well, so I'm the. Classroom teacher, I guess, is what you would classify it as. My degree, my teaching license is in a 612 math education. So I've been teaching 8th grade math CC3 specifically for 5 years. And I want to say 8th grade math for 8, and previous to that was 7th grade. 

[00:09:16] Amanda: I am a middle school special education teacher. My caseload is primarily students that need a lot of behavior and emotional support. I do co teach CC3 with Tom for one section this year, and I have also been in CC2 classes before. We've been co teaching for three years. 

[00:09:40] Joel: Cool.

[00:09:40] Misty: So, so tell us how, how did that co teaching situation, how did it start? What was it like when you first started co teaching three years ago?

If you

[00:09:50] Tom: Rocky, to describe it in one word. 

[00:09:55] Misty: Elaborate, please.

[00:09:56] Tom: so when We, first started co teaching together, it was very much the traditional I am the classroom teacher, I handle all the math content and then Amanda, you handle all your special ed students. So I take these 18 students and you get your five students. And that's kind of how we had class set up. That'howwe were organized, and that's how we ran things. 

[00:10:20] Joel: Was it, was it your idea to join forces or was some, did somebody suggest that this is how it's going to be?

[00:10:26] Tom: district. Yeah, we, it was, hey Amanda's gonna come in, she's got hours that she needs to fill, fulfill in her caseload and support these students. And they've got math goals, so she's gonna be in your math room.

[00:10:41] Amanda: We went like that for a year. Our communication, our communication. Was not great. I had been in a seventh grade CC2 class for two years before that. So I also didn't exactly know how CC3 worked And it was pretty evident that we weren't great communicators and that we didn't really have a great teaching relationship. I think that when we had a CPM coach, John, who came in and he pretty much mediated a conversation where he sat us down and was like, it's time. So from then on, he led us through some, like working through some of our differences and figuring out how we could come to really the realization that we were here for the same reason and that we were able to really work through a lot of these tough things just by talking and listening without feeling defensive and maybe a little angry sometimes.

[00:11:39] Tom: The tipping point for us was actually when we were talking about an assessment it, and from the being the math teacher, my perspective was is we we need to have these questions on there. We need to these kids got to be tested on this content. And Amanda had a just a different approach to it. Where do we need this many questions? You know, and was asking questions like that and

I kind of was defensive in some ways with it at first because I was like, well, these questions are all important because we all, we're math teachers, we think math is the end all be all and is the most important thing that they have to be learning in our room. And it kind of took that conflict that we had, as much as Amanda really loved it, and having that tough conversation. And it took having that conversation and realizing that ultimately, deep down, I care about what the students learn, and so does she. 

[00:12:40] Amanda: I also think, for me, it was really hard to have difficult conversations with certain people, so I had a lot of self growth that I had to do. And sitting down with Tom and having to work through those conversations was really good for my own personal growth, and now I'm a lot better at it. But I was always really anxious because, as a special ed teacher, sometimes you feel like you're going into somebody else's space, somebody else's classroom.

And It's really hard sometimes to have good relationships with students that don't have IEPs because you don't often see them. And so you might pop in for an hour, but it's so busy that you feel really disconnected. And I internally struggled with a lot of that disconnect for a long time. And I also was not great at having some of those hard conversations with Tom.

And so I think that was another thing that really, I don't know, led to the buckling where we were like, Oh gosh, we actually have to figure this out.

[00:13:35] Misty: Well, and, and I can totally appreciate that, right? It's, there's so much of that, that is the reality, right? You, it's Tom's classroom, right? I mean, he's the one who's there the whole day and you're coming in and you're doing things and, and that perceived idea that you're the person who's just coming in to help and you're the person who's coming in to do things and, and, and to assist as opposed to actually co teach together for students.

So I'm hearing that you had a bunch of maybe some not quite Laudean heads at first, but like some definitely some differences that came to a head. And so then how did you, how did John help you work through that? Or how did you work through it? And John facilitated that if he did

[00:14:16] Tom: Well, I think what John really helped us was to just get us to sit down and have the 

conversation because when, like I said, when we had the conversation, what we really, I think, realize, and I know I realized it was, is she's just trying to share her ideas because she wants what's best for the students, right?

And it was the, wait a second, that's the exact same goal I have. And when it was that realization, it was, okay, let's, let's actually hear everything through before I start just going into that. Well, this is my classroom. This is what I need to do to, okay, this other person that's coming into the room cares about these students too.

Let's hear what they have to say. 

[00:15:03] Amanda: I would agree with that. I think that we also have very different communication styles naturally. And so neither of us were very good listeners to the other communication style. And that was another thing we had to learn. And as we learned that we, we were able to sift through the nuances and really come to better conclusions and a better working relationship. Tom or well, Tom and I at that point had not ever co planned. We only really got together when John was here and we had to plan with John. And he said, you need to co plan. You have to figure out what you're doing and what the goals are. And I knew I knew in my gut that I needed that at least to feel a little bit more confident in the questions I was asking and how I was supporting students in the math classroom.

And so I guess I think our first step actually was just we started meeting more after John helped us break the ice and figure out how to do it and what it could look like. Then he was like, okay, even when I'm not here, I need you to meet. And we weren't really great at it at first. We avoided it a little bit.

And then. We started meeting more and more and I guess that was probably the end of our first year together that we started meeting a little more consistently.

[00:16:19] Joel: What did co planning look like then?

[00:16:22] Tom: Well, our times for co planning. We went from probably every other week to every three weeks, just a little bit more than, than when John was in with us meeting. And it was just the brief sitting down. Here's an overview of kind of what are the lessons going to be the next couple of weeks.

And it was very, very vague. Not, just very generalized the information that was given because it was a lot. It was 2 to 3 weeks worth of stuff. And that's just where we started with it was just the intentionally trying to sit down once in a while. 

[00:16:55] Amanda: I think. What really transformed our co teaching was we became friends and had a much better relationship and we were able to have fun together and also communicate together. But then also Tom and I Basically, were very directly told by John that we should apply for the Teacher Research Corps from CPM, and he was like, you need to do this.

It would be really good for you in your classroom. And that happened two years ago. 

[00:17:28] Misty: So how did that impact it then? Your relationship and what you are doing it in your classroom? 

[00:17:31] Tom: Made us spend a lot more time together. So, so I mean, flying together for, that stuff and spending that time. It's not that the spending the time outside of class, I think is important to building relationship, but it definitely helps. It just helps with, with the communication thing. We learned how each other communicate. What does she need from me and what, what I need from her as far as in that communication piece. It just made that a whole lot easier.

[00:18:02] Joel: So what I'm hearing is community building and culture in your classroom is not only beneficial to students, but beneficial to teachers as well.

[00:18:12] Tom: Very much

[00:18:13] Amanda: Absolutely. We also, as part of TRC, you kind of have to be a teacher. open minded and willing to throw out what you've tried and try new things. And I think both of us were willing and ready to do that. And then having to do that together was really important for us. And so we just. started having a lot of different ideas and talking with different people and hearing what was going on in other classrooms.

And we looked at each other and we're like, wow, we have a lot of growing to do. And so that first summer, when we came back from TRC, we started, Oh, I don't even, where did we start, Tom? I don't remember even the first change we made. Well, we, we co planned every week for the most part, as much as we could, but our co planning still wasn't as focused as it could have been.

I think the second year of co planning, it was still a little bit about well, what are we doing this week? Do we have any tests? We looked a lot at rubrics and assessments and our, our research project last year was growth over time. So how can we allow students the opportunities to recognize their own growth over time and show us how they are mastering standards when they're ready, instead of always us just being like, this is what you're being assessed on now and giving them the opportunity to do their own self reflections and see where they were and where they could be.

I also think that that first year, It's the co planning led more toward assessments and rubrics and then it started to get as the as the year went on, we started changing up the routines in our classrooms and we started using white boards on the walls. Students were standing every day and going to the white boards.

And so even just the way we presented content absolutely changed, which meant that we also needed to meet more. And that's what we're doing this year.

[00:20:11] Misty: Mm-Hmm.

[00:20:12] Tom: I think the transition we went from was is like early on once every two to three weeks. And. And then it was definitely once every other week to then we're, we're meeting every week and we had a schedule and we were very intentional with sticking to that schedule once we set it up meeting every week and it, it helped a bunch because it, it allowed me to help her with content sometimes when she had, had those questions of what lessons are coming up? And oh, I remember this lesson from last year. This one's good. And I like this. And I understood it. To.... Wait a second. I had some questions on this one, and I remember those. So it allowed us to have those questions on content, but then it also allowed us to start to have, Those other things where she was able to start to question the things that we were doing in the lessons.

Like, why are we going from this piece to this piece? I think some kids are gonna have some misunderstanding here. And it's just some of those things that as an individual you don't always see the whole entire picture when all that's going on. So it was another set of eyes, another, another person to offer in to see where are the, maybe those misconceptions going to come in, especially as a special ed. She sees those all the time on a daily basis anyways.

[00:21:31] Misty: Right? Mm-Hmm

[00:21:33] Amanda: It was really, it was really powerful for us too, because I think we started to feel safe around each other. in a lot of different ways. And so last year, there was a lesson that I absolutely just blew up. I led nearly every group in the wrong direction. I totally didn't realize my mistake and I felt so embarrassed about it, but I didn't feel like Tom would be upset that I misled a lot of kids.

And we worked together to figure out it what I needed first of all, and then also well, how do we get like the kids back on track as well? Because I think that my misconception was also some of the kids' misconception. And so that was another point in our co teaching relationship where we realized that we weren't as afraid to make mistakes in front of each other. And there's still instances where Tom will be at a board and I don't know he's been there. And then I say something and the kids are like, but that's not what Mr. Dagit said. well, I don't know what Mr. Dagit said.

And so we still have those sometimes. But we also are very intentional this year about meeting in the middle of the classroom and being, okay, when you get to this board, this is what I've done and this is where we're going. And so I feel like that part of our relationship has changed as well.

And I also think it's easier to do that because the kids are standing around the room at whiteboards. And so we have the whole middle of the room to meet, collaborate, go back. And John also really helped us with our circulation patterns. And so we try to be. on opposite sides of the room circulating, meeting in the middle and communicating, and then going back.

[00:23:18] Joel: Would you, would you say at some point your co planning turned into co facilitating, I'm hearing. And can you talk about that a little bit of how the planning then went into now you're both in the room and you both have a role, how does that work out? Hmm.

[00:23:34] Tom: sure, we are co planning has turned into like, when we're going to do the launch, like, what are we going to do for the launch? And then it's the discussion of either, either okay, I'm going to take the launch for today. Or if it's something she's, Ooh, I really like this and I can add this in and then she'll do the launch of that particular hour.

And then there's even been times like in our planning, planning time where we've taken and actually have split pieces to, to the launch of the lesson where she'll do a part, I'll do a part. . Or if she's doing a part of the launch on one of the whiteboards on one of the sides of the room, I'll go to one of the other boards and actually get that problem started for the next part.

So then she can just move the entire class over over to that direction. So yeah, it's. The co planning time is really turned into less of the kind of the content and stuff now to specifically how, how are we going to break up the lesson? Who's going to take which piece? Where, where might things come into play? Where do we want to try to get to the, the kids to in lesson?

[00:24:37] Amanda: We also talk about the important questions to make sure kids get to. One of the feedback we got from the kids this year is that they don't like getting all of the questions on the same sheet. So we now cut the sheet into, each question has their own little sheet and we just give it as we go, which has actually been really nice.

Because if a class is taking a lot longer on the initial problems to really get settled in and understand the content, then we can rearrange the order that we're delivering the content so that we make sure that kids get what they need for that day. And so that's been really helpful as well.

We've also been this year, I feel like more than ever, both viewed as math teachers in the classroom, and there's really not a distinction at all between who has an IEP and who doesn't, and I feel like both of us get called equal amounts to any board and kids will take any one of us there and they just, they just want the help and they don't really mind who gives it. And I personally feel like this is the first year that maybe in my whole teaching career where I have a relationship with every single kid in our class, and I feel comfortable and confident with every single kid in our class as well.

And so for me, that's been really powerful because I don't just feel like I'm in someone else's space and I have my own little subset of kids. It's like we share kids and sometimes when a student with an IEP is having a really tough day, Tom will be like, I can take him on a walk and then he takes the student on a walk and I just keep moving on with the class, which is really another great flexibility to have with the setup we have right now.

[00:26:22] Tom: Yeah, the labels, if you will, have really just dropped off, in the room. So there's a cool thing I want to say it was just after. Christmas where I was working over on something at my desk and Amanda had come over to ask me a question and one of the students actually came over and I was like, Hey, Mrs. Kadulski, we have a question. Can you come help us with it? And I was right next to her and they, they didn't want to ask me the question. They specifically came over to ask her, and it was a student that that's doesn't have an IEP or anything like that. It was just, Hey, you were helping us before could you know, your teacher in the room, come on over and help us.

[00:26:58] Misty: Nice. So what's next for you? Where, where else do you, where do you want to grow next? Or what are you looking at next?

[00:27:06] Tom: Well, so, our transition has been from the, my room, and she's just coming in to now it's really a shared space. And I, I would honestly say next year. Really, truly, the room is, our plans are to be shared. She's going to be in two periods, two hours next year? Yeah, she's going to be in the room for a couple of hours. And it's, I mean, we're already talking about how do we want to rearrange things? How do, it's not a, I want to do this arrangement in the room. It's really been a, a we discussion. How can we set the room up? Not just for me, in my classroom, but for the two of us. 

[00:27:46] Amanda: We've really been looking at launches and consolidations this year. When we, so we're in TRC again this year, and when we came back from the National Teacher Conference, we were, We definitely have not done enough with launches and closures and consolidations. And we can tell that sometimes because the kids get the first problem and everyone's I don't get it.

So we've been focused on that more recently, and we want to continue figuring out our launches and consolidations and that flow of the classroom and how we can mix it up enough so that kids are always a little bit on their toes and excited. While also making sure we have a structure that supports their needs.

[00:28:30] Misty: That's great. Well, thank you both for coming on the podcast and talking with us today about your journey and growth as co teachers. It sounds, I, I, it sounds like, yeah, it started out pretty rocky and, but you've been doing the work and it's paying off and your kids are really benefiting. So we really appreciate you coming 

[00:28:50] Joel: Yeah. Thanks. I look forward to reading your teacher research core blogs and things too, so we can keep track.

[00:28:58] Amanda: Thank you and thank you so much for having us.

[00:29:00] Misty: Of course.



[00:29:16] Misty: We have a few more installments of Join Them on Their Journey remaining for this school year. We're going to be wrapping it up at the end of May with some larger reflections from Grahame and Maggie and hopefully Michael, as well, to tell us how their years have gone overall. 

But for now, here's your next installment of Join Them on Their Journey.

[00:29:43] Maggie: It's Maggie, and this is where I am on my journey. I am celebrating a successful lesson. I'm taking the small win of one lesson out of the whole year and just celebrating it as a success. It is also a reminder that when the students are doing the talking, when they are doing the solving, when they are really active in the class, that is when the valuable learning happens.

In preparing for this lesson, I was actually short on time, and I needed to come up with a quick lesson that was still engaging, but was an update from my previous years. So in the past, I had done a lot more teacher instruction. I felt as though it needed to first be explained in order for the students to be successful.

I would also say that it wasn't the most successful, which is why I knew that I needed to update it. And so what I ended up doing was just following the Inspiring Connections lesson, which had updated it from Core Connections 3. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but we both had an idea of updating the lesson that was given.

And so instead of me going through how to solve equations with fractions and decimals, the students watched a quick video on how to solve equations with fractions and decimals, and then we just gave them problems to go through. So it was a lot less teacher instruction and a lot more student driven.

I would say that there was times when some students were struggling, but they were working in pairs and I think that really helped. I also think them working up at the whiteboards also allowed them to look around and be like, Oh, that's what they're doing. So using the, the help from around the classroom in solving, allowed them to really have a deep conceptual understanding and pull their ideas together. And so, the, the lesson went way more smoothly than, than I was expecting. I ended up taking the equations that were given and instead of just having them work through in their mathematician notebook, I put each equation on note cards and then each group was given one note card at a time. And so I, I did that intentionally in order to not make it seem as overwhelming.

I was also then really able to check in on the notes. and have them go through it step by step. So, if I'm thinking about my successful lesson, I was pleasantly surprised that such a quick lesson, quick prep time led to a really fruitful lesson for the students. And they even walked out of here being like, I get this.

And, and I think also just trusting the process. I think any time you can reduce teacher talk is great. Even though I think, in the past, I had that feeling that I needed to give more explanation, but just kind of trusting that the students can work through it on their own. And I did have to walk around every once in a while and give some little nudges, but it wasn't by any means a passive class like what it was maybe in the past.

So I'm taking this win as it is. And even though I can't implement it probably every class, just really taking this in as a success. And just being reminded that the students need to, need to be doing. They need to be the doers of the class. This is where I am on my journey.

[00:33:43] Grahame: Hi Joel, I'm Misty Grahame here reporting during palindrome week here at the end of April with a month left to go of the school year. I'm starting to plan and think about the end of the year lessons that I want to make sure students have experienced before they move on to the next course. 

One thing I appreciate are the skills that my students have developed and cultivated in my class that I think will serve them for the rest of their high school experience and hopefully beyond.

I see students taking ownership of their learning and recognizing that it is a process. I have students still get frustrated and still may not understand concepts that I hoped we grasped earlier in the year, but I see students taking more risks, sharing ideas, and recognizing that they can learn the concepts, even when they're difficult.

Unfortunately, these skills are not measured on end of year testing, which can be used as a criteria for judging how a curriculum works. My principal recently said that he was not supportive of our district adopting CPM as a curriculum. And that he felt like students did not like the style that CPM suggests.

He tends to take a more traditional approach and has told me that he likes to see students have small successes And to build on those. 

So I'm trying to meet him in the middle and support students when they are working on challenging problems. While trying to help students make sense of the problems so that they can have ownership of their learning.

I recently read in a NCTM article that teaching for deep conceptual understanding is an issue of equity. This is helping me to not give up on my work to help students understand, but I also recognize that we need to synthesize and clearly explain the concepts that students should be learning. This is why closure is so important.

One thing that I have started to do is to take a little bit more time with closure to make sure students are understanding those key takeaway concepts. 

I also have been trying to give students a little practice or exit ticket at the end of class, which I think has helped solidify that closure and given students an example of what types of problems they should be able to do.

So moving forward, I hope to continue to pursue and find common ground with my principal and other teachers and continue to think about who benefits from the type of teaching and learning that students experience. I think CPM has potential to provide access for all students to a high quality curriculum and thinking deeply and understanding mathematics at a conceptual level.

So I'm excited to end the year and see how students feel about their learning with a survey and start to think about and prepare for next year. So thanks for listening and keep having those critical conversations.

[00:37:47] Michael: Hello, I am Mike Hammer. I am the teacher from the Northern Lower Peninsula. We are the school that has just starting the CPM program this year. So, but I'm in a weird situation. I've used CPM at another district for 10 years, and this is the first year that I've actually ever implemented CPM with all the training and things like that.

So what I'd like to talk to you about today is fatigue. You know, as we get through the school year and we're making through the stretch towards, summer vacation here in Michigan I'm noticing as a staff here, we are hitting the wall and we are just kind of falling into old habits.

So, there are some things that are kind of an impetus to this being new teachers here at our district and me, myself, personally, I am just struggling with the pace of getting through all of the material. So I find myself falling back to old habits. Teaching directly really picking out select problems and then just going through them.

And so that's been a very challenging portion to the program this year. The other thing I think that is coming into play is knowing now that I've had the training and all of these things during the summer, I'm still not fully comfortable with the scope and sequence and where things fit in and how the storyline goes. So this first year has really been a trial and error and trying to figure out how things work. 

What's also made this kind of difficult, and I've noticed myself falling back into the habit, is my students have a lot of apathy towards doing the work, and maintaining things, and getting homework done, because I know a huge part of CPM is this, idea that it's mixed, spaced practice, and the homework is that mixed, spaced practice.

So, I've had to resort to using some of my class time to have them work on homework to make sure that they're doing the mixed spaced practice, because I know it's really, really important. So, again, that takes away from some of the time to move through the curriculum and things like that. So, that's been just a struggle.

And I think it's real for a lot of people. I still think CPM is a great program and I really think that as I move forward and as we, as a district move forward, we're going to start getting better and better and better at actually using the program the way it's defined. But. direct instruction has been creeping in here in the last couple of weeks, just trying to make sure that we're getting far enough into the books. 

So, some of the things that we have been doing to remedy that is we have been working together after school every Wednesday and we've been talking about all the STTS structures and which ones are we using and which ones are we trying. And we're trying to keep ourselves and hold ourselves accountable to the structure of CPM. And making ourselves use all of the pieces of it. And that has been super supportive and very, very helpful as we kind of make our way towards the end of this school year. Also, just trying to work on ways, and we've been talking in our group, just of motivating kids. So like I said, I've gone to doing some homework now in class, so I can help to push that forward and getting them to do those types of things. Also they are starting to get comfortable with working together, so those things are starting to move forward. 

But, I think we're all just, as the year gets along, we just get a little tired. And when we get tired, we kind of fall back into our old habits. And so right now, we are just trying to course correct ourselves and get through to the end of the year still using the key components of CPM. Again, I do not want to say in any way that CPM is a bad program or anything. I think it is a wonderful program. I just think as a new district starting it out, we're just falling into our old habits.

And I think that's just natural. And I think in the next three to five years, we're gonna see really great things and we're really going to utilize the program to its full advantage. The final thing is, I do think now that we have younger grades doing it, as we start to see those 7th and 8th and 9th graders come up through our program. Myself, and my fellow teachers in the upper grades are going to start to see that we can work with the program a lot better because they have a lot more skills and a lot more continuity because that's the important part that we're getting from CPM is there is now a continuity from seven through 12 for us, which we didn't have before.

I hope this is enlightening. I hope this just is a realistic conversation about starting a new program and, it's, we we're gonna just keep plugging away and I hope everybody has a great rest of the school year. I know it's coming down to an end here in Michigan. June is on the way, so.

Have a good one, and again, this is Mike Hammer from the Northern Lower Michigan. Have a great day.

[00:42:58] Outro Season 3 for pod: So that's all we have time for on this episode of The More Math For More People podcast. For more information and to stay connected, find CPM on Twitter and Facebook. You can find our handles in the podcast description. The music for the podcast was created by Julius h and can be found on pix of a.com.

Thanks Julius. Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, Joel?

[00:43:31] Joel: It'll be May 14th, International Chihuahua Appreciation Day. And I think my dog Wendell actually has a little Chihuahua in his breeding as far as I understand. Also, I always remember the Taco Bell commercial with the Chihuahua and the head bobbing. that sort of thing. And I always enjoyed that. I do enjoy some Taco Bell too.

So maybe that's why I like that Chihuahua. The breed is named after the Mexican state of Chihuahua, and it usually grows between three to six pounds. And so we'll take a look at one, why we appreciate this breed of dog and to the history of it and see how to celebrate and look at activities and all those sorts of things.

So can't wait to talk to Misty about dogs, especially Chihuahuas. See you on the 14th.