Episode 2.23: Where Joel and Misty talk about Hogwarts Houses and learn about language routines in the Inspiring Connections curriculum

It's National Slytherin Pride Day! What Hogwarts House would you belong to? There are lots of quizzes online to find out. Misty took hers... Her house colors would be blue and bronze... ;) 

We also continue our series discussing the supports and features of the new Inspiring Connections curriculum. This week we chat with Tony Jones, Dan Henderson and Stephanie Castaneda, from the Curriculum and Assessment department, about mathematical language routines that are imbedded into the curriculum and how these support the language development of ALL learners. 

If you would like more information about the new Inspiring Connections curriculum, please contact your Regional Professional Learning Coordinator (map). 

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
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Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Transcript

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Misty 0:00

Hello everyone. It is March 21st, 2023, and this is episode 23 of season two of the More Math for More People podcast. Cheers.

0:28

Hello everyone. I'm Misty. And I'm Joel. And this is the more. For more People. Podcast brought to you by CPM Educational Program. On this podcast, we discuss the CPM curriculum, trends in math education, and share strategies to shift instructional practices to create a more inclusive and student-centered classroom. We also highlight upcoming CPM professional learning opportunities and have conversations with math educators about how they do what they do, and we always try to have a little bit of fun and laughter as well. Indeed we do. So come and find out what shenanigans were up to on this episode. Boom.

Misty 1:11

All right. Well, I happen to know that you have some level of excitement about this National Day today, Joel.

Joel 1:17

I do have some level of excitement for all the days,

Misty 1:21

I, I was gonna say that yes, that is true. And, but a particular, I don't know. I just feel like they have a particular level of excitement

Joel 1:27

I am pretty excited. Slither in Pride Day.

Misty 1:31

Woo. Ooh, slithering Pride

Joel 1:34

Exactly. And I think my excitement comes more because of my Harry Potter fandom, but it's cause I don't really identify as Slytherin, but I'm excited that there's this day

Misty 1:46

I just love that. Identify as slitherin so I, I have, I have many thoughts as I always do. I mean, one, I'm curious so what, is there a, is there Hufflepuff Pride Day and mean, are there other Harry Potter House Pride Days? or are there only Slither and Pride

Joel 2:00

It could be. This is the only one I've ever seen.

Misty 2:02

an answer to this question. Okay. All

Joel 2:05

Maybe they're not on Tuesdays. I'm not sure.

Misty 2:07

I mean, clearly we don't know a lot of national days, cuz they're not on Tuesdays yet, but we'll have to have the

Joel 2:13

We're getting there.

Misty 2:13

What, 16 years before we'll

Joel 2:16

I think that's the official cycle. I actually have no idea, but it sound.

Misty 2:20

no, I think it's.

Joel 2:22

that's a real

Misty 2:22

maybe it's only, yeah, I think it is. Yeah. How many years before the calendar repeats or something? I don't know if it's 16 or if it's now, I'm wondering if it's eight anyway. No, I think it is. I think it's 14. This is totally aside, but because you think about it, like January 1st could start on a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, that's seven. And or it could be a leap year, so that's times two. So I think there's 14 official calendar. anyway, so we might have to have the podcast for a really long time. This is only season two

Joel 2:54

I hope we do

Misty 2:55

be much longer for us to get through all the National Day ofs. And there'll probably be some repeats before we get to that,

Joel 3:01

Yeah. Yeah.

Misty 3:01

be clear, because I think it doesn't just repeat every 14 years. It takes longer for it to actually get to all 14 of them.

Joel 3:07

Oh my gosh.

Misty 3:08

Cuz you gotta get all those leapers. Ugh. We're in for the long haul on the,

Joel 3:12

we

Misty 3:12

this

Joel 3:13

are, we are, committed to finish this

Misty 3:14

Pride Day. And now I'm overwhelmed by how long we have to do this podcast to get all the National Daves No anyway, so Slither and Pride Day. Okay, so here's my other thing is that I know that people do this, I take these little, tests or whatever to figure out, I'm sure there are online quizzes, right? To figure out what house you would be. you ever done that?

Joel 3:33

I have

Misty 3:35

Okay. And what did you get?

Joel 3:37

Griffindor.

Misty 3:38

Gryffindor?

Joel 3:40

I was pretty happy about it too.

Misty 3:42

Oh, well, okay. Is that cause that's what you wanted,

Joel 3:45

that's what I wanted. So maybe that swayed me in my questioning. I don't know. I don't know.

Misty 3:50

It's possible. It's possible. I've never done one. I don't think I've ever done one of those. So maybe that's what I should do today.

Joel 3:55

I think that'd be a good idea.

Misty 3:56

I should take a Harry Potter house quiz and see what it tells me.

Joel 4:02

And then you can let us all know.

Misty 4:04

I could, I could. Do you have any predictions on what you think I'm gonna be.

Joel 4:09

No, I don't because I don't,

Misty 4:11

You're not willing to go out on that

Joel 4:13

I'm just not in the mind of the sorting hat. Like I don't understand quite the logic of it because it's within somebody's ability to sort yourself. But yet the sorting hat sort you kind of interesting

Misty 4:25

Yeah. They sorting, had what, like tapping into your kind of core personality

Joel 4:31

Yeah.

Misty 4:32

other thing? I just think it's also interesting the whole concept that there's gonna take a whole bunch of kids who have very similar personalities and put them all together.

Joel 4:39

Yeah. Well, but is, is that the rule? I wonder if that's not the rule. There's a balance there that says I'm gonna put

Misty 4:48

don't think that they take kids who are really, I think the whole point is that they're putting kids who have this similar, you know, personality. I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not gonna

Joel 4:59

do you think it's similar to how you would make your teams in your classroom at all?

Misty 5:04

know because I would make those randomly I think that, I think it's the antithesis

Joel 5:10

you. That's right.

Misty 5:12

that's, yeah, that's the point. So what are the characteristics of a Slytherin person? Did they, did they tell you that in your

Joel 5:18

that

Misty 5:18

national Day stuff there?

Joel 5:19

Not so much the, well, not so much the characteristics, just that they are often looked at as a little evil, maybe a little sinister, that sort of a thing.

Misty 5:32

Well, they seem

Joel 5:32

bad people, I guess, but yeah, sneaky, like

Misty 5:36

Mm-hmm.

Joel 5:37

critical thinkers. Maybe I'm not sure.

Misty 5:41

Well, I'm just wondering what a person who is a sli, what they would have pride about. That's all. just being. Proud to be part of a group. All right,

Joel 5:50

Indeed,

Misty 5:51

if you identify as Slitherin, then

Joel 5:54

your day.

Misty 5:55

good on ya. And have a great day. And maybe someday the other ones will come up and we'll learn more about those houses too.

Joel 6:01

That's right. And I'm guessing you're Raven Claw.

Misty 6:04

Oh, all right. Well, we'll have to find out and maybe we'll put it in some secret place for people to find it.

Joel 6:12

Love it.

Misty 6:13

All right. Have a great day. All right. Here we are. Oh my gosh. Is this our third one or our fourth one? Joel, help me out. This is the fourth

Joel 6:36

Three or four.

Misty 6:37

All right. Three No, no. Which one is it? Three

Joel 6:40

Oh, oh four

Misty 6:42

is our fourth, fourth one, our fourth conversation about inspiring connections in our little series here. And today we're gonna talk about, I'm gonna, I'm gonna struggle with some of the language around this, but we're gonna talk about language routines, math language routines, and some other things related to multilingual learners. And we have three of our writing. Curriculum and assessment staff here today with us. So we have Dan Henderson and we have Tony Jones and Stephanie Castaneda, who are gonna help us with this conversation around the. Help me out. The language routines, what are we gonna call this today? We've, there's been so much discussion. Sometimes I get lost in the weeds of it. And Joel and I are really our learners here today, right? We are the ones who wanna know and find out what are these language routines and supports that we have for language learners? And I'm inspiring connections. So who's gonna go? It's gonna be the big debate.

Dan 7:38

the question, what are the language routines? Or is the question like, do we want to situate that in? What's up with ic? Or how do you wanna

Misty 7:46

Yeah, no, that's that is a good point. Let's start with just what are the, what are the math language routines? I know that one of the things that Joel and I know is that there is an increased focus, let's say, on language routines and how those fit into the curriculum. So let's start with that and we can segue it into how we are supporting all language learners.

Dan 8:07

Okay. in that case we first saw them in this, paper out of Stanford, by Jeff Fires and probably screening that name up and a bunch of other people. but there are some routines that support student sense making and optimize their output and cultivate conversations and

Misty 8:25

Mm-hmm.

Dan 8:26

Make the metacognition happen, and maximize that language use. So there's eight of them that are listed in the paper. a stronger and clear each time, collect and display critique, correct. And clarify. Information gap co craft questions and problems. three reads, compare and connect and discussion. Sports,

Misty 8:50

Hmm mm-hmm.

Dan 8:51

a bunch of subcategories in there, but that those are the big eight.

Tony 8:54

Well, one of the, the real issues and I think in IC we're very aware of is how we position learners, all learners to be successful, and one of those is to remove any barriers to the access that they have to the math. And if that barrier is language, then how do we remove that barrier and help language learners access the math, and how do we position them within the classroom for

Misty 9:24

Mm-hmm. And so these math language routines help with that?

Dan 9:29

Yes,

Stephanie 9:30

yeah, I, I was gonna say that, uh, we're all language learners.

Misty 9:33

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie 9:35

and I think when we learn to utilize these math language routines and, and we let go of the language barrier that English has to be the language that, we prefer or that we push students to use primarily, then we open the doors for trans languaging. And really then are these language routine? Most beneficial and useful because it amplifies all language. It assesses students knowledge despite the type of named languages that they choose to use. So I thought it was important to throw that in.

Misty 10:13

Mm-hmm.

Joel 10:13

Yeah. And I, I know as a teacher in the classroom too, students who were English language learners or multi-language learners were identified to me somehow. and then I would have to come up with something different. So I think it's interesting that you're adding it to the curriculum now with this research.

Dan 10:31

one of the things we've been thinking about is like framing that not as, English language learners as a whole history of being framed poorly. But then we shifted, we started thinking uh, multilingual learners or emergent multilingual learners, or something like that. I. Recently we've come to the conclusion that, named languages are sort of the, the boxes that don't help us. Everyone is a language or,

Misty 10:57

Mm-hmm.

Dan 10:58

so we come equipped with this whole repertoire of, languages, but like ways to say things and ways to communicate. And we're trying to. Let that happen the way it does naturally in our classrooms.

Misty 11:11

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dan 11:12

Does that make

Misty 11:13

Mm-hmm.

Tony 11:15

And, it, it includes more than just the language routines. I mean, a lot of our STTs, our study team teaching strategies, they have embedded. Supports for trans languaging, gestures. there's all kinds of other things that are part of this. and I think, again, for me, the light bulb went off when I read, from Chival that it's about how you position the

Misty 11:41

Mm-hmm.

Tony 11:43

so often students who may not speak. a language or may not be comfortable speaking, that language may not communicate as much, and then they're seen as not knowing or understanding the math when that's not the case at all. It's that they're having trouble communicating their understanding. So how do we, how do we encourage that? How do we support that? How do we draw that out? I think that's a huge piece of what we tried to

Joel 12:09

Yeah. Could you, could you talk a little about, about what translanguaging means?

Stephanie 12:14

Trans languaging is. just the idea of not really thinking of language as named languages. That there is an English language and there is a Spanish language, right? It's, it's not thinking about language as named languages, but thinking of language as a way to communicate. It's one of the ways we communicate. it's not the only way we communicate. So the idea of trans languaging in a classroom is, raising your awareness level of the different, the many ways that everybody in the room is communicating and welcoming and, elevating the ways students communicate as to not shut them down if we're not using the dominant language of the community. Right. So trans languaging is, I think, an awareness level of how everybody in your area is communicating, whether that be a classroom. Or a larger community.

Misty 13:10

So I wanna shift and talk a little bit more about the math language routines and some of the ways they're connected and, embedded into the lessons, into the curriculum as supports for these things that you're talking about, helping with trans languaging and communication with students to be able to talk about their math and their understanding. So how do they show up in ic?

Dan 13:31

Oh, okay, so, they show up in a, in a lot of ways. We're aware of the routines and so we've embedded them. thinking carefully again about when each routine is helpful and what it's helpful for.

Tony 13:44

we were very clear that we didn't throw the routines in just to throw the routines in. We, we looked at a problem and said, how can this problem and this routine come together to help students? and so we were very specific and very intentional on how we did that. and that's a support that's offered that you don't have to you don't have to go figure it out. You don't have to try to like, come up with something you don't have to rely on,, some other. Aid or teacher or something else that, that they're embedded right in there and they're, our front matter explains them and, and they really, they benefit all students. It's not just about students who don't speak the,, dominant language in that community. It's about all learners. It helps all learners.

Dan 14:33

These routines are, they might be, the names might be new to people, but a lot of the routines themselves are common in classrooms and good and should continue in classrooms, whether you call them a language routine or not, right? Talk moves are a thing. We just lump them in as discussion supports, convince yourself and a friend and a skeptic is a thing. That's just, a version of stronger and clear each time. So these are things that teachers have been doing. the all we're doing is giving it a name and making sure we're including it.

Stephanie 15:09

Also I want to, say that inspiring connections, because it's still true to CPM values. It remains a social curriculum, and these language routines thrive in a social curriculum. So I, I also want to highlight that even if these strategies might feel new to you when you're using them within the Inspiring Connections curriculum, it's gonna be a more natural feel because of the social nature. of each of the lessons.

Misty 15:43

Mm-hmm.

Tony 15:43

and it's true that social language developed before mathematical.

Misty 15:48

Mm-hmm.

Tony 15:48

and so that that social element really does help elevate students.

Misty 15:56

So are these the kinds of things that I know a lot of times when I'm working with teachers and talking with teachers, the reading part of CPM curriculum, because it is a problem-based curriculum, can be. Heavy, right? There is a lot of reading. We have to decipher text, we have to understand the things, these language routines, are they gonna both support the, verbal communications and things that are happening with kids, and also the reading and getting those pieces of the curriculum as well.

Dan 16:25

There are a couple of routines, that are specifically designed to make sense of written text. Like three reads is about reading the thing. so yes,

Stephanie 16:39

yeah. Yeah, I would agree that, The three reads is a routine that is gonna help with reading, but also coupling that with a study team teaching strategy such as, teammates consult or think pair share, right. Having the opportunity. These things don't stand alone. They, they don't work well because if you do this, everything's gonna go great, right? Otherwise, we would've been only implementing these things.

Tony 17:03

Especially if you're struggling with language and, and trying to communicate. So a think ink pair share that think time is very critical for them. A teammates consult or a dyad, a dyad where you can. another student and borrow some of that language that maybe you are struggling to try to find so that you can communicate. So there's so many of those study team and teaching strategies that just lead right into

Misty 17:32

Mm-hmm.

Tony 17:33

And, and again, the, they're for all students. Sentence frames. Sentence frames definitely help students to, to be able to put their thoughts down in writing because they can, they have the sentence frame and just they fill in the gap. but it helps all students, cuz even students who maybe they're fluent in the dominant language. They don't, they're not sure how to say it or what to say. And so those sentence frames are right there. And, and they're suggested, so it's not required, but they're that like, that supports already there when you go to teach the lesson, there it is. You don't have to come up with it.

Stephanie 18:09

I, I was gonna try to make a connection to, pacing and, reading and all that, that's important. But I also think that there's a little bit more of a balance that you can still access the curriculum if reading isn't Your reading in English, I should say, isn't your forte, because we know students can read in a variety of languages. So if reading in English is a stumbling point, we've got pacing that helps teachers to.

Joel 18:35

Hmm.

Stephanie 18:36

display what's needed. So it reduces some of that anxiety of feeling overwhelmed by all the reading that might potentially be there. But I also think we've done a pretty good job of recommending, teachers use strategies such as only displaying an image if you can get away with it in a particular lesson. Right? So it's not gonna be as reading heavy as, one might think just by looking at, at the.

Dan 19:01

Yeah. And that goes back to something we've talked about before with the oral instructions piece of thinking classrooms. Is it like we take that pretty seriously?

Misty 19:09

Yeah. And I, I think some of this also for me connects to the idea of we learn language by using language, right? We learn what words mean by using them in context, and, and we gain a sort of understanding of what a square is without necessarily. Writing the definition of a square. Right, It's one of the things I always think about, you could walk up to lots of math teachers and they could tell you all kinds of things about a square. They probably couldn't give you the actual definition of a square off the top of their head. Right. The like key feature that makes it a square. So that idea and that concept around these words, these math words that we use. Comes from lots of different usages and lots of different ways of interacting with them, and what I'm seeing is these language routines can help get kids more access to all of those pieces that will help them make sense of the mathematics and the ideas.

Stephanie 20:05

And, and as a teacher coming into the classroom with the framing of trans languaging, driving a, a lot of what I'm looking for as, as you were talking about a square. people listening aren't gonna see this, but I saw you draw with your pointer fingers a figure, and when I looked at you, I could see and understand what you were saying. And this is part of trans languaging, right? When we communicate, we don't just use words, we draw things, we gesture. There are so many different ways we can get our knowledge across if we're open and again, aware of the many ways we communicate.

Joel 20:37

Yeah, I, I'm, I'm thinking right now of this, this ex totally expands the idea of concept map and the closure and how you could do that and use these routines in an activity like,

Misty 20:49

Mm-hmm.

Tony 20:50

And, and we even talked about, when you look at, if you're gonna use a word

Misty 20:54

Mm-hmm.

Tony 20:55

like what you do with that because you can have, you don't have to have English only definitions and you don't have to have only text word definitions and so it, it's opening up all the ways that we communicate and that's, you can put it up for everybody to see.

Misty 21:13

So as we start to wrap up this conversation, what are, this is the time where I'm always like, what are the things we didn't ask? What are the other things that you want to say as we bring this to a close

Tony 21:26

I would say this though. I think for people maybe who haven't had a lot of experience with trans.

Misty 21:31

Hmm.

Tony 21:32

And with multilingual learners, there's a trepidation or a fear like, I'm not sure what to do. I'm not sure how, not only did we embed the routines, but we've explained and walked teachers through them within the materials and between that and our professional learning, I think you're going to feel really comfortable using

Misty 21:53

Hmm

Tony 21:55

know, and I've seen other curriculums where you should do this. I'm like, I don't know how to do that. In this case, you will know how to do it. I always say this, it's not, it's not rocket science, but it's not an accident when it happens. It's a very intentional piece. But, but you can do it. And we've given those supports in many ways to, to make it.

Misty 22:20

Steph, did you have any last thoughts?

Stephanie 22:23

I think one thing I do wanna share is that, when these supports are embedded, it's important to note that we aren't saying co craft. questions for, multilingual learners we're saying co craft questions to support trans languaging because. We want language to not be seen as a disability cuz it's not with, it's been used historically as a barrier to education. And, and we were very intentional that through our writing we wanted to bring down those barriers so students truly do have access. and language is not a barrier.

Dan 23:08

I was gonna say, I, we were gonna say something about, the way the, the language routines, one of the reasons the language routines are so powerful is that they work not just in a classroom where one student speaks Spanish and everybody else speaks English. Or most of the students speak Spanish, and a few people speak English too, but they work in multilingual settings. But when I was a teacher in Boston, I had classes where there were like eight or nine languages, named languages and probably a few that weren't named, just floating around. And so if you wanna, pull from students who are all speaking different, named languages at home, then these routines, help you draw that out and help them communicate with each. And that grows the mathematical community.

Tony 23:58

it's a very good point because it really puts in perspective. the multicultural aspect in your classroom where all cultures, all language, all discussion, all communication is valued. And so like in Boston when you had eight, eight plus named languages in your classroom, if you have these routines and you really start to embrace trans languaging, you're embracing all those cultures and all the things that these students bring into the classroom from outside the classroom that we don't often have in classrooms

Stephanie 24:37

is it worth, is it worth noting that teachers don't have to be. don't have to be comfortable in all the named languages in their classroom to, be successful.

Joel 24:48

I think that's worth

Misty 24:50

it circles back to the fear and trepidation piece that was mentioned earlier. A big part of what we're talking about here is that mm-hmm. historically we've asked teachers to do something different. To do something to, Incorporate, include transition, whatever it is. And that I'm hearing two things I'm hearing. One, reframing how we think about the challenge and also incorporating structures and routines that allow teachers to do that without having to seek something extra. And I think that both of those things, It's fabulous. I think that is such a great piece to incorporate and include in the Inspiring Connections curriculum. I'm gonna say. Thank you to three of you for spending this time having this conversation. And, we're gonna have one more conversation in a couple weeks to wrap up some of the logistics and some of the other pieces that are new, the digital platform we'll talk about and some other things in inspiring connections. If you wanna learn more about inspiring connections, reach out to your regional professional learning coordinator

Joel 25:59

Absolutely. Thanks everybody.

Misty 26:01

Thank you.

Master Outro Season 2 26:17

So that's a wrap for this episode of The More Math For More People podcast, for more information and to stay connected. You can find CPM on both Twitter and Facebook. The music for the podcast was created by Julius h and can be found on pxa bay.com. Join us for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, Joel?

Outro 2.23 26:39

It'll be April 4th National School, librarian Day. And I remember back in high school, we loved our school librarian quite a bit and there used to be this, Obiwan Kenobi. And I remember we made another portrait with our, the librarian in Obi One's place. And we stayed after school one night and it was a big extravaganza. And we scaled the walls, we took down the obiwan and we put the librarians portrait in its place. And I remember we made. The school paper and the administration probably wasn't that happy with us, but we, we, got a lot of props for showing our love for the school librarian cuz school librarians really do a lot for schools and so it'll be fun to recognize them and, and celebrate them on April 4th. We'll see you then.